Unapproachable Coach vs. Unapproachable Ref

[utahkarakita]

At camps or meetings, whenever we're reminded by the board or evaulators that coaches' biggest complaints are referees being "unapproachable" I always start thinking.

Do coaches realize how unapproachable they make themselves sometimes? I'm certainly not a master of communication, but generally have no problems stepping aside and speaking with a coach, answering a question, or even listening to a rational complaint every now and then.

But, far too often there's the coach who isn't really interested in "communicating" at all. He just wants to try and influence your game, vent, yell, or whatever. Are these the same ones that then complain about referees not talking to them?

In my mind, the problem in coach-referee communication usually resides with the one wearing a tie. Oh well, that must be why they call it a thankless job

[Adam]

Originally Posted by utahkarakita

But, far too often there's the coach who isn't really interested in "communicating" at all. He just wants to try and influence your game, vent, yell, or whatever. Are these the same ones that then complain about referees not talking to them?

In my experience, sometimes but not always.

Being able to actually call a game at a given level is on the first step to proficiency; and it's not the hardest step. Learning to communicate appropriately and effectively to coaches is the final and most difficult piece.

OTOH, there are some coaches with whom we just cannot communicate because their expectations from the communication are unreasonable.

[JRutledge]

Most officials I know would talk to any coach that comes to them in a calm and responsible manner. I guess people feel because you yell at the top of your lungs and call the person names that will make officials want to talk to you. I have told coaches "I am not talking to you until you learn how to talk to me." Usually that gets the message across and it really makes no difference what they are yelling about. I do completely agree that most of the time the coaches are the ones causing the problem. I cannot say I have seen officials yelling at coaches for things that take place in the game. It just does not happened that way.

Peace

[Judtech]

IMO a lot of it depends on the personality of both parties. There ARE some officials who are not approachable, and there are CERTAINLY coaches who are that way.
An evaluator once told a group of us that when he talks about "unapproachable officials" he is talking about officials with short fuses and/or offiicials who don't know how to respond w/out sounding arrogant. Of course, he also said both of those are VERY subjective.
It may suprise some, but I am pretty laid back. While I am very confident in my ability, if a coach ASKS a question, I am more than happy to answer. If I know that a coach has been a problem in the past, I try to crack a joke, usually at my expense, in the pregame. During the game, if a coach is getting really exercised, I try to wait for a dead ball where I am close and acknowledge that I am aware they have some type of concern, and it is easier to communicate when there isn't yelling involved. i.e. "Coach, if you have a question about something, feel free to ask. IF you yell, then I just think you are my wife yelling at me for something and tune it out!!" That usually works. But there are some coaches who just want to keep on. I just put it in my mind, I did my best to be approachable, and they weren't so just let it go and only communicate whenn I have to : First Horns, TO length, foul outs.

[JRutledge]

I also think officials get that tag from coaches because they do not appease their requests no matter how ridiculous those requests are. I do not know very many officials that are totally against talking to coaches and players without any provocation. I have seen coaches yell across the court and cannot understand why an official is not talking to them.

Peace

[Da Official]

I was working a Jr high rec game last Saturday, Team A is a very good team and is winning.

2nd Quarter....Dead ball I'm Trail far side, horn goes off and I see the Sub A running in. Its rec ball so I'll give the kid a break and walk over to him and explain that he isn't to come in the game until we call for him. He says ok.

3rd Quarter....Dead ball I'm table side Trail, sub (same player) runs onto the floor. I blow my whistle, tweet tweet, kid keeps going, tweet tweet tweet tweet, kid doesn't stop.

TWEET...Technical Foul White

Coach walks over "what did he do?" I give the stop sign and say "Hold on coach i'll be right back". I anticipated the coach questioning the call but I wanted to explain to my (young) partner what was going on so he could get the FTs started.

He then yells "u better come back over here and explain to me NOW, Right now!!! (while pointing at the floor). I look at him and look at the table, "TWEET...Technical Foul Unsporting Conduct White Coach.

I turn back around and go to my partner and explain everything to him. I come back to the coach and I tell him the player entered the game without being called in and its a technical. He replies 'Doesn't he get a warning?" I reply "I gave him a warning." He says "well you didn't warn me".

Me: (By this time I had had enough) "Coach I don't have to warn you. Its in the rule book, pick one up, your player has to wait for us to call him in."

Coach: "Well before the game you said to keep communication lines open...but you didn't communicate with me. You didn't keep your word....you didn't keep your word." (Now imagine the coach saying this in an Asian accent....it was sorta funny to me)


While that was the highlight of my evening, what could I have done better here? Mind you I had no trouble with the guy before or after this incident. My thinking for the Technical is its obviously in the rulebook BUT sometimes experience is the best lesson....I'm sure the kid and the coach will wait for the official to call em in next time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

While that was the highlight of my evening, what could I have done better here? Mind you I had no trouble with the guy before or after this incident. My thinking for the Technical is its obviously in the rulebook BUT sometimes experience is the best lesson....I'm sure the kid and the coach will wait for the official to call em in next time.

There is nothing you can do with an unreasonable individual. First of all "You better come to me right now and give me an explanation" was the way he felt he should talk to you. Well I am a grown *** man and my father died almost 15 years ago and he did not even talk to me that way.

You even seemed to make a public issue of the kid coming onto the court. And you then enforced the rule. I am not sure what else you could have done, because if you went to the coach he might have told you "Well you are the only official that cares....."

Peace

[Adam]

In a rec game, if the coach had been a peach all game, I might have followed up my T (on the coach) with "Coach, I asked you to hold on a second so I could inform my partner what was going on. In the mean time, you're not my coach or my wife, so you don't get to talk to me like one of your players."
If there was any indication that such a conversation would go sour, I'd do nothing.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Da Official

"u better come back over here and explain to me NOW, Right now!!! (while pointing at the floor)"

Yeah, that will get you into trouble. I have to wonder how much coaching inexperience played a role in that line. (I had an inexperienced coach give me lines this year I won't forget soon.)

Still, in fairness, such issues are few and far between, at least from my perspective. Most coaches know how to communicate, as do most officials, but it's often something you learn as you go.

I estimate that I have coaching issues once every dozen or so games. I find the approachable coaches to far outweigh the unapproachable ones. The truth is, though, the unapproachable ones stick in your memory more often, so it may seem more often than it really is.

We all have to be careful with broad-brush statements. They can drive a big wedge into effective communication.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Me: "Coach I don't have to warn you. Its in the rule book, pick one up."

"Unfortunately, they don't sell them at the Dollar Store where, apparently, you buy your clothes."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

"Unfortunately, they don't sell them at the Dollar Store where, apparently, you buy your clothes."

"Communication is still open, coach. You'll just be talking from, instead of out of, your a$$."

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is nothing you can do with an unreasonable individual. First of all "You better come to me right now and give me an explanation" was the way he felt he should talk to you. Well I am a grown *** man and my father died almost 15 years ago and he did not even talk to me that way.

You even seemed to make a public issue of the kid coming onto the court. And you then enforced the rule. I am not sure what else you could have done, because if you went to the coach he might have told you "Well you are the only official that cares....."

Peace

Yeah I couldn't believe he said that....it was pretty unexpected...but I'm glad he did --it gave me experience.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few officials that officiate this league that would have made the call but I'm probably 1 of 3 officials that are actually trying to improve and go somewhere so I treat each game as the real thing. Crazy me.

[stripes]

what part of Utah are you from?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few officials that officiate this league that would have made the call but I'm probably 1 of 3 officials that are actually trying to improve and go somewhere so I treat each game as the real thing. Crazy me.

Don't get discouraged. I had a similar situation this past year in a middle school game.

During a throw-in, a defender clearly reached through the plane, which is rather frequent in a middle school game. I got the whistle, reported the warning to the table, informed the coach, and went back to make sure the kids knew what the infraction was and what it meant.

This particular coach didn't like the call. When I informed the coach, she wouldn't look me in the eye. When I asked if she understood it, her reply was, "Yeah, I understand it. I just don't agree with it. It's a seventh grade game."

After the game, I pondered that comment, and I came up with three reasons that call should be made:

1. It's just a warning (repeated offenses notwithstanding),
2. Breaking the plan puts the thrower-in at a disadvantage, and
3. If we DON'T call it, how will players learn not to do it?

Stick with the facts, and don't let emotions get in the way.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Da Official

I was working a Jr high rec game last Saturday, Team A is a very good team and is winning.



Coach walks over "what did he do?" I give the stop sign and say "Hold on coach i'll be right back". I anticipated the coach questioning the call but I wanted to explain to my (young) partner what was going on so he could get the FTs started.

He then yells "u better come back over here and explain to me NOW, Right now!!! (while pointing at the floor). I look at him and look at the table, "TWEET...Technical Foul Unsporting Conduct White Coach.

Me: (By this time I had had enough) "Coach I don't have to warn you. Its in the rule book, pick one up, your player has to wait for us to call him in."

Coach: "Well before the game you said to keep communication lines open...but you didn't communicate with me. You didn't keep your word....you didn't keep your word." (Now imagine the coach saying this in an Asian accent....it was sorta funny to me)

.

Since you asked for feedback here are something to consider. In a situation where the coach wants an explaination try saying something along the lines of "I gotcha coach, let me take care of this first and then we can chat." This let's the coach know that you are willing to talk to them, but also letting them know that you have other responsibilities. It is a small change but you the way you phrased it may have been interpreted as brushing him off.
When he questioned why he didn't get a warning I would have left off the second half of your statement. Basically, he asked a question and all you have to do is answer it. "Why didn't I get a warning" "Coach, I don't have to give you a warning" and let it go at that. Anything more you might come across as a bit snarky.
As for the rest of his comments, I would have had to put the sarcasm filter on high for me and just walk away with a smile.
Not trying to come down on the way you handled it. Just trying to pass on some things I have had to work on.