Announcer Speak

[Juulie Downs]

The worst was a week ago, I don't remember which game. A1 dribbles down around the arc, then cuts toward the basket. Just outside the key, he starts to plow a stationary B1, but then pulls back at the last minute. Creates some contact, B1 falls backward. IMO it could have been PC, but refs no-call. A1 starts to cut around, then loses the ball, B2 picks it up, action runs the other way.

Announcers called it a flop. Then, "when the dribbler creates contact like that, the refs have got to call that flop. It's gotta be a block. [Any second year ref would know there was no block there it was either PC or nothing]. Look how that flop created an advantage for B. A bobbled that ball and lost it just because of that flop. The refs really handed B that easy layup at the other end. That's just a really bad call, because...." yadda, yadda, yadda.

They replayed it about 19 times from 5 different angles showing how the "flop" clearly created the advantage for B. No mention of what A might have accomplished if he hand't run the guy, er, I mean, almost run the guy down.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

The worst was a week ago, I don't remember which game. A1 dribbles down around the arc, then cuts toward the basket. Just outside the key, he starts to plow a stationary B1, but then pulls back at the last minute. Creates some contact, B1 falls backward. IMO it could have been PC, but refs no-call. A1 starts to cut around, then loses the ball, B2 picks it up, action runs the other way.

Announcers called it a flop. Then, "when the dribbler creates contact like that, the refs have got to call that flop. It's gotta be a block. [Any second year ref would know there was no block there it was either PC or nothing]. Look how that flop created an advantage for B. A bobbled that ball and lost it just because of that flop. The refs really handed B that easy layup at the other end. That's just a really bad call, because...." yadda, yadda, yadda.

They replayed it about 19 times from 5 different angles showing how the "flop" clearly created the advantage for B. No mention of what A might have accomplished if he hand't run the guy, er, I mean, almost run the guy down.

May not be the play you recall, but it sounds very similar. I wish that I could remember the exact game, but the announcer was definitely Len Elmore, so I can determine at which site it was played. The post player on the block bumped into the defender who went down, then the offensive player tried to make a move into the lane and lost the ball. The result was a scrum on the floor and a held ball. Len babbled about it being a flop and needing to be penalized. I actually thought that it was a PC foul.

[Mark Padgett]

Back in the olden days before I came to Oregon, I worked in radio and did play-by-play on HS football and basketball, plus some local college basketball games. During one HS BB game, my color commentator thought an OOB call should not have been called when a player stepped on the line because his defender had committed a "force out". During a spot (in the "business", commercials are called "spots") off the air, I told him there was no such rule in HS. He hardly said a word the rest of the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Back in the olden days... his defender had committed a "force out".

Back when I was playing in the 60's, the 1960's, not the 1860's, I remember "force outs". I can't remember if "force outs" were called in pickup games in the driveway, or in organized games with officials. Was there ever such a rule, or is this just one of those urban myths?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Back when I was playing in the 60's, the 1960's, not the 1860's, I remember "force outs". I can't remember if "force outs" were called in pickup games in the driveway, or in organized games with officials. Was there ever such a rule, or is this just one of those urban myths?

It was, and might still be (I wouldn't know and don't really care) an NBA rule.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

It was, and might still be (I wouldn't know and don't really care) an NBA rule.

As Nevada pointed out, it was an NBA rule but was eliminated in 1976-1977.

NBA.com - NBA Rules History

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Back when I was playing in the 60's, the 1960's, not the 1860's, I remember "force outs". I can't remember if "force outs" were called in pickup games in the driveway, or in organized games with officials. Was there ever such a rule, or is this just one of those urban myths?

The NBA definitely had a force out rule. I'm not sure about HS. I'll consult the NFHS handbook.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Back when I was playing in the 60's, the 1960's, not the 1860's, I remember "force outs". I can't remember if "force outs" were called in pickup games in the driveway, or in organized games with officials. Was there ever such a rule, or is this just one of those urban myths?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NBA definitely had a force out rule. I'm not sure about HS. I'll consult the NFHS handbook.

Found it. According to the NFHS Basketball Handbook the "force-out" provision was eliminated in 1963.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Eliminated in 1963.

Thanks. Nevadaref is, indeed, the "Archive King"

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

May not be the play you recall, but it sounds very similar. I wish that I could remember the exact game, but the announcer was definitely Len Elmore, so I can determine at which site it was played. The post player on the block bumped into the defender who went down, then the offensive player tried to make a move into the lane and lost the ball. The result was a scrum on the floor and a held ball. Len babbled about it being a flop and needing to be penalized. I actually thought that it was a PC foul.

Xavier-Kansas State. I stopped listening when he said something like, "You shouldn't benefit from a flop like that."