You make the call

[mbyron]

Just curious: some have said PC, some have said flagrant (and a couple no calls). Presumably the rationale for a flagrant foul here is excessive contact. Anyone want to consider an intentional foul?

For those who think the travel has to be called, you should also be calling an intentional or flagrant technical foul on this play. And if an intentional technical, why not an intentional personal foul if we ignore the travel?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Just curious: some have said PC, some have said flagrant (and a couple no calls). Presumably the rationale for a flagrant foul here is excessive contact. Anyone want to consider an intentional foul?

For those who think the travel has to be called, you should also be calling an intentional or flagrant technical foul on this play. And if an intentional technical, why not an intentional personal foul if we ignore the travel?

Good point.

It's an option that might be used if you thought that (a) the player glanced or looked at the defender before throwing the elbow, and (b) the subsequent contact wasn't severe enough to warrant a flagrant foul(in the calling official's opinion). The punishment for an intentional foul versus a PC foul does more closely fit the crime in that case.

[Pantherdreams]

Not to be splitting hairs but . . .

These are Canadian University players, so like our local kids play FIBA rules. The only calls for fouls can personal foul, unsportsmanlike or technical. Since tech's are for non-contact issues its not a tech. That means personal or unsportsmanlike.

Its only unsportsmanlike if he is not making a basketball play and/or the contact is excessive to the situation. If you look at the play in the context of the contact going on during the rebounding situation (where even the player who ended up getting decked) was tossing so bows and forearms and combine that with the fact that he was pivoting up court to make the play. I don't think it meets the criteria for unsportsmanlike.

So in the end I've still got a personal foul that was well drawn by the defense, and lot of the rest of this conversation is becoming more and more hypothetical and philosophical then pertains to the actual incident.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

These are Canadian University players, so like our local kids play FIBA rules. The only calls for fouls can personal foul, unsportsmanlike or technical. Since tech's are for non-contact issues its not a tech. That means personal or unsportsmanlike.

FIBA, right, well -- who can say?

I suppose I was thinking what I would call if I saw this in one of my games, not what FIBA officials should call. I'm not competent to answer the latter question.

[Rich]

We have 13 people who think an elbow to the chops is worth nothing.

Could some of you come out and tell us what we're (actually you're) missing here?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We have 13 people who think an elbow to the chops is worth nothing.

Could some of you come out and tell us what we're (actually you're) missing here?

Teeth

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We have 13 people who think an elbow to the chops is worth nothing.

Could some of you come out and tell us what we're (actually you're) missing here?

They are using a text based browser...no video support.

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We have 13 people who think an elbow to the chops is worth nothing.

Could some of you come out and tell us what we're (actually you're) missing here?

Make it 12. I should have restrained from voting until after this discussion progressed. When I first watched the video, it seemed as though the back of the forearm got the defender moreso than an elbow.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Make it 12. I should have restrained from voting until after this discussion progressed. When I first watched the video, it seemed as though the back of the forearm got the defender moreso than an elbow.

You would make Lester Hayes and Deion Sanders proud.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Make it 12. I should have restrained from voting until after this discussion progressed. When I first watched the video, it seemed as though the back of the forearm got the defender moreso than an elbow.

And that would have made a difference?

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We have 13 people who think an elbow to the chops is worth nothing.

Could some of you come out and tell us what we're (actually you're) missing here?

What would be a common foul that I'm ignoring because the ball is dead due to the traveling violation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

What would be a common foul that I'm ignoring because the ball is dead due to the traveling violation.

And that would be a terrible call. Period.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

What would be a common foul that I'm ignoring because the ball is dead due to the traveling violation.

Even if that was your player that just got smacked upside the head?

If so, you should be bronzed. You are one rare coach.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We have 13 people who think an elbow to the chops is worth nothing.

Could some of you come out and tell us what we're (actually you're) missing here?

You just saved me typing. How is this not a foul of any degree?