You make the call

[Jay R]

I watched the game live and 'colour man" Leo Rautins kept harping back to Bekkering being on the bench with two "questionable" fouls.

Later in the game, there was a similar situation (not as severe contact) that was not called. Then Rautins wondered why the officials didn't call it. Good to see Canadian analysts are just as clueless as Americans.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jay R

Later in the game, there was a similar situation (not as severe contact) that was not called. Then Rautins wondered why the officials didn't call it.

That's probably a valid question if there was a no-call on a similar situation...even if there was less severe contact. Why wouldn't they call the second one also?

The first call was an absolute no-brainer. Not very consistent if they let something similar go.

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's probably a valid question if there was a no-call on a similar situation...even if there was less severe contact. Why wouldn't they call the second one also?

The first call was an absolute no-brainer. Not very consistent if they let something similar go.

It could be a valid statement but his argument was that the first call was just a basketball move as the second involved excessive swinging of the elbows. I felt both plays involved excessive swinging of the elbows.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jay R

It could be a valid statement but his argument was that the first call was just a basketball move as the second involved excessive swinging of the elbows. I felt both plays involved excessive swinging of the elbows.

Ah, now I see. Makes sense now with more info. If he thinks the first elbow was just a "basketball move", then he's been a recipient of too many of those "basketball moves".

[Adam]

Just because it was a "basketball move" doesn't make it legal. Great call, great example of announcer cluelessness.

[CLH]

Great call....but I think we're missing the real topic of discussion here, those are some cool a$$ shirts the Canadian officials wear! I'm moving!!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CLH

Great call....but I think we're missing the real topic of discussion here, those are some cool a$$ shirts the Canadian officials wear! I'm moving!!!

True, but you'd have to learn FIBA rules.

[DLH17]

Flagrant...no way. Pretty good sales job by the defender too. He stepped right up to the offensive player...inches from him. Offensive player pivoted his entire body. Contact was inevitable. Mess with the bull - you might get the horns. Way to take one for the team.

[rockyroad]

Wow. 7 people have actually said they would no-call this play. That's kind of hard to believe. Dude knew the defender was there, had no reason to throw that elbow out there other than to get a piece of the defender - that's a solid PC foul and the guy deserved to have to sit for a while.

Btw - the announcer is the same Rautins who played at Syracuse in the 80's and now has a nephew (or cousin) playing for Syracuse?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just because it was a "basketball move" doesn't make it legal. Great call, great example of announcer cluelessness.

I don't see anyone on this board saying that being a "basketball move" makes it legal, just not flagrant. (perhaps you're referring to the announcers words which I didn't listen to).

I do see an obvious PC foul. I just don't see a flagrant.

He didn't aim, he didn't wind up, he just pivot with his arms up as is the case through the whole game. He just happened to have a defender step into that same space at the wrong time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't see anyone on this board saying that being a "basketball move" makes it legal, just not flagrant. (perhaps you're referring to the announcers words which I didn't listen to).

I do see an obvious PC foul. I just don't see a flagrant.

He didn't aim, he didn't wind up, he just pivot with his arms up as is the case through the whole game. He just happened to have a defender step into that same space at the wrong time.

Sorry, I was referring to announcer-speak and was actually thinking along your lines; "basketball moves" has no bearing on whether it's a foul or not; only on the level of foul.

I would only quibble by saying the defender was in that space before he pivoted in.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I do see an obvious PC foul. I just don't see a flagrant.

The latest instruction coming out from John Adams is that these fouls need to be called flagrant. This hasn't been well publicized yet, but if you keep an eye out this summer you will hear about it.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just because it was a "basketball move" doesn't make it legal. Great call, great example of announcer cluelessness.

In the process of explaining this to an irate coach this is an issue of LGP, right?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

In the process of explaining this to an irate coach this is an issue of LGP, right?

Use "verticality". The same concepts apply in both FED and NCAA rules. A player with the ball can't clear out or cause illegal contact within the defender's vertical plane.

NFHS rule 4-44-5 and NCAA rule 4-74-1(e)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

In the process of explaining this to an irate coach this is an issue of LGP, right?

"He clocked him with his elbow."

I guess I don't feel the need to explain more than that.