Taunting the fans?

[referee99]

Looking for feedback (Fed Rules) relating to player interaction with fans.

In the Oakland Athletic League, just prior to the playoffs Player X quits Team A, has a residence change and is allowed to play for Team B in the playoffs!

Of course the two teams match up in the first round of playoffs. Team A (who lost the player) coach suggests he'll pull his team off the floor... unfair advantage... etc, but come game time its a go.

High intensity environment, packed gym. I am a spectator. Player X gets booed every time he touches the ball. He does well in the game, and after most baskets, gestures towards the opposing fans.

No penalties assessed for this behavior. Would you/ should you?
In addition, other players would cock an ear to the crowd, or give them the 'ssshhh' indication after baskets or free-throws.

What do you find acceptable in this area, and what has to be punished? Any rules interps would be helpful.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by referee99

Looking for feedback (Fed Rules) relating to player interaction with fans.

In the Oakland Athletic League, just prior to the playoffs Player X quits Team A, has a residence change and is allowed to play for Team B in the playoffs!

Of course the two teams match up in the first round of playoffs. Team A (who lost the player) coach suggests he'll pull his team off the floor... unfair advantage... etc, but come game time its a go.

High intensity environment, packed gym. I am a spectator. Player X gets booed every time he touches the ball. He does well in the game, and after most baskets, gestures towards the opposing fans.

No penalties assessed for this behavior. Would you/ should you?
In addition, other players would cock an ear to the crowd, or give them the 'ssshhh' indication after baskets or free-throws.

What do you find acceptable in this area, and what has to be punished? Any rules interps would be helpful.

Who cares? Hes not doing anything like flipping the bird or what? I wouldnt do anything.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by referee99

Looking for feedback (Fed Rules) relating to player interaction with fans.

Any rules interps would be helpful.

POE 1A in the 2003004 NFHS rule book:

TAUNTING/SELF PROMOTION:
Players are increasingly directing their celebratory actions towards opponents, which should be interpreted as taunting and baiting, and penalized accordingly. Further, the committee is concerned with the trend towards players "playing to the crowd", attempting to increase attention and praise for their own accomplishments rather than towards the game itself and team achievments. While many of these actions are not specifically legal by rule, extreme behaviors could and should be considered taunting and baiting the opponents. Officials should remind captains and coaches at the pre-game conference that all actions and reactions should demonstrate appropriate sporting behavior.

In a further POE in 2005-06, the FED warned against players being allowed to use their uniforms in unsporting ways i.e. popping the shirt to the crowd, etc.

The penalty laid out was a player technical foul charged to the offending player, or a team technical foul if several players were doing it.

So you do have rules backing to do something about players gesturing to the opposing fans. Imo it's best to warn the player first though, and also take it to his coach at the same time. A simple "Coach, he's gotta cut that crap out...or else" might be the best way to go.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

So you do have rules backing to do something about players gesturing to the opposing fans. Imo it's best to warn the player first though, and also take it to his coach at the same time. A simple "Coach, he's gotta cut that crap out...or else" might be the best way to go.

+1

Exactly my thought: warn then whack.

[Indianaref]

Agree with JR, sounds like a brief chat with the coach could take care of this. If not, then JR laid out the POE to back your T up.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Exactly my thought: warn then whack.

Just one more thought here: I think a warning is warranted before assessing the T. Unfortunate though it might be, what counts as "sporting behavior" is not obvious to many, and certainly not consistently enforced across the country or even across a given conference.

[BillyMac]

How would a rookie, or inexperienced official, who has diligently read the rule book, case book, and manual, know about a Point of Emphasis from 2003-04 or 2005-06? Same question about annual interpretations that never make it into the case book.

I know that camps, and clinics, would expose new or inexperienced, officials to such situations, but not all officials take officiating as seriously as others. Some are just content to have a good understanding of rules, and mechanics, and do a good job when they work their CYO and AAU games.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How would a rookie, or inexperienced official, who has diligently read the rule book, case book, and manual, know about a Point of Emphasis from 2003-04 or 2005-06? Same question about annual interpretations that never make it into the case book.

Asking their local rules interpreter might not be a bad idea...for anything that they aren't sure of and can't find in the books. Most rules interpreters either know the answer or know how to get an answer.

Lacking a local rules interpreter, try your assignor/evaluator/state office. Or this and similar forums.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How would a rookie, or inexperienced official, who has diligently read the rule book, case book, and manual, know about a Point of Emphasis from 2003-04 or 2005-06? Same question about annual interpretations that never make it into the case book.

I know that camps, and clinics, would expose new or inexperienced, officials to such situations, but not all officials take officiating as seriously as others. Some are just content to have a good understanding of rules, and mechanics, and do a good job when they work their CYO and AAU games.

Although the rule book specifies baiting and taunting an opponent, I don't think you need the POE from 03-04 to know that taunting the fans is bad behavior and can easily be corrected by talking to the coach.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How would a rookie, or inexperienced official, who has diligently read the rule book, case book, and manual, know about a Point of Emphasis from 2003-04 or 2005-06? Same question about annual interpretations that never make it into the case book.

...

The NFHS could take over Mark's attic under Eminent Domain and give us all access to it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

So you do have rules backing to do something about players gesturing to the opposing fans. Imo it's best to warn the player first though, and also take it to his coach at the same time. A simple "Coach, he's gotta cut that crap out...or else" might be the best way to go.

While I agree, the "Oakland Athletic League" (from the OP) might not be HS ball, and the standard for taunting / self promotion might be different. If the actions were out-of-line for that league, then warn and whack. If not, then let it go.

[referee99]

JR for the reference.
bMac for outlining why there is a void in my understanding.
Bob, OAL is legit HS, AND may have different standard!

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How would a rookie, or inexperienced official, who has diligently read the rule book, case book, and manual, know about a Point of Emphasis from 2003-04 or 2005-06? Same question about annual interpretations that never make it into the case book.

I know that camps, and clinics, would expose new or inexperienced, officials to such situations, but not all officials take officiating as seriously as others. Some are just content to have a good understanding of rules, and mechanics, and do a good job when they work their CYO and AAU games.

This is the MAIN reason I read this forum on a daily basis. I learn so much about how to handle things before they come up and feel much more prepared than I would if I were only reading the rule book, manual, and case book. I've often said that I learned the most in college when I was in grad school because WE were discussing the issues rather than listening to a prof speak from the top down. This is a valuable resource for rooks like me.