Can't comprehend this one

[asdf]

Originally Posted by deecee

really? we are? why do you say so?

How about throwing it against the wall?

How about booting it into the empty seats behind the basket?

How about throwing it aginst the backboard?


Where do you draw the line?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by asdf

How about throwing it against the wall?

How about booting it into the empty seats behind the basket?

How about throwing it aginst the backboard?


Where do you draw the line?

And that was Jeff's point.....

Every official draws their very own line. And every official has their own opinion as to whether unsporting conduct was involved.

Personally, if a player hollers an expletive after a missed FT that is loud enough to be heard in every corner of the gym, that's an automatic "T" to me.

Of course, it's always not a bad idea to have some kind of clue as to how your assignor/evaluator likes to see this kind of play called also...as well as how they want to handle the other examples listed above(within reason, of course. There aren't any absolutes when it comes to "T"s). Asking a few questions in a meeting at the start of the season might save you a few headaches down the line. Don't fight Head Office.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by asdf

How about throwing it against the wall?

How about booting it into the empty seats behind the basket?

How about throwing it aginst the backboard?


Where do you draw the line?

You draw the line based on the situation and what the player is upset about. Throwing the ball off the wall can be done in many ways and not be a problem. What if the player is throwing the ball off the wall so it will come back to them?

This is why I do not like these "automatics" when there are all kinds of situations that these would not apply or be appropriate. Learn to deal with players and coaches without always having to give a T. But most officials I see are only concerned with blowing the whistle instead of communicating.

Peace

[asdf]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You draw the line based on the situation and what the player is upset about. Throwing the ball off the wall can be done in many ways and not be a problem. What if the player is throwing the ball off the wall so it will come back to them?

This is why I do not like these "automatics" when there are all kinds of situations that these would not apply or be appropriate. Learn to deal with players and coaches without always having to give a T. But most officials I see are only concerned with blowing the whistle instead of communicating.

Peace

You'll let a kid boot a ball into the seats without penalty?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by asdf

You'll let a kid boot a ball into the seats without penalty?

Perhaps I just bet my partner $500 dollars that I could get a FT shooter to boot the ball into the stands, and then told the shooter that I would pay him $200 to do just that.

Now why would I penalize a kid who just made me $300?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Perhaps I just bet my partner $500 dollars that I could get a FT shooter to boot the ball into the stands, and then told the shooter that I would pay him $200 to do just that.

Now why would I penalize a kid who just made me $300?

You're obviously just joking. He would have done it for $50.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by asdf

You'll let a kid boot a ball into the seats without penalty?

Usually no.

But.....

I had a game once where a player with the ball got whacked pretty solidly in the nuts trying to get out of double-team. Not done deliberately, for sure imo, but still a solid shot..and a foul. The player kinda reflexively hoofed the ball away before sinking to the floor. And the ball did make the bleachers. Did I call a "T"? Nope. There was nowayinhell that particular gesture was unsporting in nature, again imo. And the opposing coach also asked me about it; he wanted the "T" of course. I just told him "Not in that situation. coach."

I know where you're coming from. Those acts certainly look bad..and unsporting as well. But I know where Jeff is coming from also. There might be mitigating circumstances and that's why it's tough to apply a one-size-fits-all rule.

Again, imo there aren't really that many absolutes when it comes to calling unsporting technical fouls. You have to judge each individual situation on it's own merits and then call what you feel fits that situation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by asdf

You'll let a kid boot a ball into the seats without penalty?

It would depend on why a kid booted the ball into the stands. It would depend who they are mad at. It would depend on where the ball went. A lot of things depends and that is the way I am going to call it. Now I love the hypothetical, because I have never seen a kid boot the ball into the stands. I have seen kids bounce the ball several times and it was not always about us or even a call. It was about a certain level of frustration at themselves and we moved on. Sorry, everything is not black and white and no for me this is not automatic. You can call what you feel, but I am not going to call that for the reason you stated.

Peace

[asdf]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It would depend on why a kid booted the ball into the stands. It would depend who they are mad at. It would depend on where the ball went. A lot of things depends and that is the way I am going to call it. Now I love the hypothetical, because I have never seen a kid boot the ball into the stands. I have seen kids bounce the ball several times and it was not always about us or even a call. It was about a certain level of frustration at themselves and we moved on. Sorry, everything is not black and white and no for me this is not automatic. You can call what you feel, but I am not going to call that for the reason you stated.

Peace

There is no hypothetical here.

A kid on on the receiving end of a beautiful pass from a teammate. He fumbles it out of bounds. He retrieves it and out of frustration because he knows he made a mistake, he intentionally boots the ball into the empty stands behind the basket.

whack......each and every time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by asdf

There is no hypothetical here.

A kid on on the receiving end of a beautiful pass from a teammate. He fumbles it out of bounds. He retrieves it and out of frustration because he knows he made a mistake, he intentionally boots the ball into the empty stands behind the basket.

whack......each and every time.

Well if it happens you let us all know, because I have never seen that ever happen. Never heard it happen. Not even close.

Peace

[asdf]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well if it happens you let us all know, because I have never seen that ever happen. Never heard it happen. Not even close.

Peace

I have never seen it either, but I guarantee you, it's going to be penalized if I do. I won't need to determine if the kid was upset about a bad Math quiz, a bad apple he had for lunch, or a bad pass from his teammate.


My first example in this thread of a player slamming the ball to the ground and having it launch 15 feet into the air after he failed to catch it has happened to me twice in my career. Both times the player was upset at himself.

We shot 2 both times.

P.S. -- Both players and I still chuckle about it to this day.