Late technical foul

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Naturally, I did a bit of second guessing of myself in the bar.

I do this all the time after games. Miller, or Miller Lite?

Kid earned the technical. He got what he earned. Well done.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why is it that I feel a bit sad, then, about how it ended?

Perhaps because of these two things.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Without even giving it much thought, I called a technical foul.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

First, I simply reacted to what happened...

Completely aside from the point of the validity of the T, you probably would have liked to have collected your thoughts for a second and considered whether you wanted to make this call, then if you decided, "Yep, got to give it to him," you do so without any afterthoughts.

As it was your postgame unhappiness may be coming from your reaction to the situation and the admitted lack of thought which you put into the decision. We expect ourselves to be calm in the tense, high-pressure moments and hold ourselves to a very high standard.

Of course, this is not to say that a call made from an initial reaction in such circumstances isn't the fairest one possible. There is much that can be said in favor of making the determination in that manner.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Completely aside from the point of the validity of the T, you probably would have liked to have collected your thoughts for a second and considered whether you wanted to make this call, then if you decided, "Yep, got to give it to him," you do so without any afterthoughts.

This brings up an interesting point. I personally have NEVER given a technical quickly, spontaneously, as apparently happened here, then later said to myself that I should not have made the call. On the other hand, there are countless times when I have said later, "I should have T'd him up,"
when I had not made the call at all. And of course, there are situations in between: He better calm down.......that's enough.......Whack!

My conclusion is that maybe I should call more of the quick spontaneous variety, but there is no definitive answer to this question.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

You did the right thing. As you said yourself, you simply reacted to the situation. If it would be a technical in the first quarter, then it should be a technical in the last minute. I think most officials would prefer to not have to call a T at that point of the game and wish the players and coaches would just do their job and not force us to make that call. But they are the ones who are responsible for the T. I personally dislike working with guys who won't take care of business.

Iowa....well put. The part I highlighted in blue I think speaks for the majority of us here.
Rich......good job!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

If it would be a technical in the first quarter, then it should be a technical in the last minute.

Not pertaining to Rich's T, but just in general, how many of us agree with the above statement?

I believe that there is a school of thought that espouses that late in close games the decisions of the officials have greater impact and also the emotions of the coaches and players are higher, hence the threshold for what qualifies as unsporting behavior is also elevated.

Thoughts?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that there is a school of thought that espouses that late in close games the decisions of the officials have greater impact and also the emotions of the coaches and players are higher, hence the threshold for what qualifies as unsporting behavior is also elevated.

Thoughts?

I think that that particular school of thought needs to grow some cojones. They're looking for a reason not to have to call the "T". And they'll always find one.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

...the focus in the minds of some (or many) will be on the technical foul and on the officials rather than the game.

The focus of some (or many) might be on the player who earned the T. If you had not delivered on the T, this particular player would think he could get away with this behavior.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not pertaining to Rich's T, but just in general, how many of us agree with the above statement?

I believe that there is a school of thought that espouses that late in close games the decisions of the officials have greater impact and also the emotions of the coaches and players are higher, hence the threshold for what qualifies as unsporting behavior is also elevated.

Thoughts?

You know, I've had some time to think about Thursday night and the technical, and I'm fine with it.

This same school of thought is the same that people have when they think officials shouldn't call a foul on the last possession because it could decide the game.

I could've passed on the technical foul, sure. I could've pretended there were no gestures, no unsportsmanlike words. Had I simply reported the foul he would've calmed himself down eventually, sure. I imagine there are a lot of officials that would've turned themselves away from the kid to not see what was happening "behind his back."

How is that fair to the game or to the other team's players who maintained composure even when they were down 5 points in the fourth quarter?

I'd like to think that my "reaction" was based on my 22 years of experience -- it certainly wasn't out of anger. It was the same reaction and the same "patient whistle" I'd apply on a shooting foul -- I probably took three steps towards the table before I brought my whistle up and called the technical. Those of you who have done this a while probably know what I mean when I say how it's amazing you can be working a game that's so important to the kids and teams and to you it's just Thursday.

And I have to give the visiting coach credit. There was a lengthy article in the paper with quite a few quotes and he didn't blast the officiating or the kid for getting the technical -- he chose to blame some missed bunnies in the fourth quarter that brought the home team back into the game.

If you think I'm second-guessing because it means I'm sorry I called it, I'm coming across the wrong way. I re-examine a lot of calls I make during a game and this is no different.

[just another ref]

Last week, boys playoff, late first half, home team had a double digit lead. H1 drives, pulls up, and gives a head fake. V1 is fooled, leaves his feet and lands on top of him. Foul is called. V1 lands on the floor. H1 turns away from V1 and throws the ball to the floor behind him. I couldn't tell if it hit V1 or just spiked right in his face, but the official called the T. Now, instead of H possession, V make 2 free throws, then inbound and hit a 3. Huge play.

2 minutes left in the game. Visitors now up 1 or 2. V2 drives and scores. Here's H1 again. I don't know if he thought V2 pushed off or what, but he yells "Come on, ref!" He gets his second T. V now get 2 more free throws plus the ball back, and they go on to win by double digits.

No one likes to hang a loss on one player, but this was extreme.

I don't think anyone thought this official took the game away. He simple made two calls which needed to be made.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

On the other hand, there are countless times when I have said later, "I should have T'd him up,".

A few years ago we had a very obnoxious coach who, after a serious injury to one of his players, who had been fouled, which was called, complained to me, and my partner, that some additional foul calls, previous to the injury, could have prevented the injury. He did this while both he, and his trainer, were attending to the injured player. We just moved further away from the "injury pow wow" to encourage the coach to just tend to his player. This was just a few minutes before halftime. During halftime my partner and I discussed the situation, and we both agreed that neither of us had charged a technical foul because both of us, independently, decided that a technical foul charged, in this particular situation, would have called attention away from the serious injury to the player. We both agreed that in the second half that the coach would have absolutely no leeway in terms of unsporting behavior. We left the locker room intent on charging a technical foul. First, and only time, in twenty-nine years, that I was "targeting" a coach. Wouldn't you know it, the coach didn't make a single complaint in the entire second half.

A missed chance. If something like this happens again, the technical will be charged, in a quiet manner, after the injured player is attended to. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, double shame on me.

[bbcoach7]

Because just as fans and coaches hate to see late calls that can decide games, referees hate to make late calls that may appear to have an effect on deciding a game. But sounds like you did what you had to do. A kid has to control his emotions in that situation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

Because just as fans and coaches hate to see late calls that can decide games, referees hate to make late calls that may appear to have an effect on deciding a game.

Disagree completely. I've never met a referee yet that hated to make a late call for that reason.

Referees just call the game. It's the fans' and coachs' job to second-guess them. And it's a fans' and coachs' fantasy also that we don't want to have an effect on the game at the end. The player that committed that late violation or foul is the one that is having the effect on the game, not us. All we're doing is reporting it.

Any referee that hates to make a late call because that call might have an effect on deciding a game should consider taking up a different avocation. Officiating isn't meant for them. And we really don't need 'em either.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree completely. I've never met a referee yet that hated to make a late call for that reason.

Referees just call the game. It's the fans' and coachs' job to second-guess them. And it's a fans' and coachs' fantasy also that we don't want to have an effect on the game at the end. The player that committed that late violation or foul is the one that is having the effect on the game, not us. All we're doing is reporting it.

Any referee that hates to make a late call because that call might have an effect on deciding a game should consider taking up a different avocation. Officiating isn't meant for them. And we really don't need 'em either.

I had a situation a couple of seasons ago. Visitors were playing their hearts out and were right with the home team, who had only lost 1 or 2 games all year. Home team had a 1 pt lead with less than 30 seconds left. Vistors had the ball in the forecourt. I was trail and was probably about 5 feet from the VC. His player was trying to dribble past her opponent who reached out her arm and impeded her. I whistled the foul with less than 10 seconds left.

We're in the bonus and a TO is called. During the TO my partner asked if I yelled "Hands off!" I thought to myself, "What a donkey! I'm 5 ft from the VC and I'm going to yell 'hands off' at that point in the game instead of calling the foul?" The call was met with boos, but it was the right call to make. This particular official has a reputation of not making tough calls.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

"What a donkey!

C'mon 26 Year Gap? Is that what you really thought? Are you sure that what you thought was actually a synonym for a male donkey? Possibly a donkey who's first name is Jack?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

C'mon 26 Year Gap? Is that what you really thought? Are you sure that what you thought was actually a synonym for a male donkey? Possibly a donkey who's first name is Jack?

No, that is what I thought of him when he wanted me to tell a player to get out of the lane who had picked up her dribble and had no opening to pass or shoot.