Wake Forest vs VA Tech - Dead Ball Fouling

[APG]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

We play FIBA here in Eastern Canada so this is a non issue. Fouls before the ball has left the inbounders hands are automatically an unsportsmanlike.

Just like just about everything else that used to considered good tough defense. lol

Really, for all fouls? If team A is inbounding the ball and sets an illegal screen is it automatically unsportsmanlike? Likewise, if team B is called for a blocking foul, that's unsportsmanlike as well? If so, seems like a harsh penalty. What does the rule book say specifically? I am not doubting your statement since I do not use FIBA rules.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Really, for all fouls? If team A is inbounding the ball and sets an illegal screen is it automatically unsportsmanlike? Likewise, if team B is called for a blocking foul, that's unsportsmanlike as well? If so, seems like a harsh penalty. What does the rule book say specifically? I am not doubting your statement since I do not use FIBA rules.

Yes any foul. Screening, hands, blocking, anything when the ball has not left the inbounders hands is automatic.

ART. 36 UNSPORTSMANLIKE FOUL

Statement
When the ball is out-of-bounds for a throw-in and is still in the hands of the official or is already at the disposal of the thrower-in and at that moment a defensive player on the court causes contact

FIBA Official Interpretations 2008/LK Page 16 of 25
with a player of the team of the thrower-in also on the court and the foul is called, this shall be judged as unsportsmanlike.

Example 1:
A4 has the ball in his hands or at his disposal for a throw-in when B5 causes contact with A5 and a foul is called on B5.

Interpretation:
Because B5 is obviously not making any effort to play the ball and an unsportsmanlike advantage is gained by not allowing the game clock to restart. An unsportsmanlike foul must be called without a warning being given.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Yes any foul. Screening, hands, blocking, anything when the ball has not left the inbounders hands is automatic.

ART. 36 UNSPORTSMANLIKE FOUL

Statement
When the ball is out-of-bounds for a throw-in and is still in the hands of the official or is already at the disposal of the thrower-in and at that moment a defensive player on the court causes contact

FIBA Official Interpretations 2008/LK Page 16 of 25
with a player of the team of the thrower-in also on the court and the foul is called, this shall be judged as unsportsmanlike.

Example 1:
A4 has the ball in his hands or at his disposal for a throw-in when B5 causes contact with A5 and a foul is called on B5.

Interpretation:
Because B5 is obviously not making any effort to play the ball and an unsportsmanlike advantage is gained by not allowing the game clock to restart. An unsportsmanlike foul must be called without a warning being given.

I understand the reasoning; however, the implementation would lead me to believe that officials will call these plays differently than they would plays after the ball has been released.

An illegal screen that you might want to get in 'regular' play may get passed on because the punishment seems excessive. A small hold coming off that screen may get passed on too, when it would normally get called out front for the same reason.

I'm sure the directive is to call it the same regardless, but that was the directive when swinging elbows was a T. It has been changed to a violation to attempt to get officials to call it because the T was deemed "too harsh" in many instances.

I don't like it. I prefer the opportunity to use judgement to say "that foul occurred in the normal sequence of events," or, "that foul was intentional."

[APG]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I understand the reasoning; however, the implementation would lead me to believe that officials will call these plays differently than they would plays after the ball has been released.

An illegal screen that you might want to get in 'regular' play may get passed on because the punishment seems excessive. A small hold coming off that screen may get passed on too, when it would normally get called out front for the same reason.

I'm sure the directive is to call it the same regardless, but that was the directive when swinging elbows was a T. It has been changed to a violation to attempt to get officials to call it because the T was deemed "too harsh" in many instances.

I don't like it. I prefer the opportunity to use judgement to say "that foul occurred in the normal sequence of events," or, "that foul was intentional."

I agree. And from looking from the FIBA rule book, two unpsortsmanlike calls while get a player disqualifed from a game. From the sounds of it, two illegal screens before the ball is released while get it a player DQed for the rest of the game.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I agree. And from looking from the FIBA rule book, two unpsortsmanlike calls while get a player disqualifed from a game. From the sounds of it, two illegal screens before the ball is released while get it a player DQed for the rest of the game.

Any 2 unsportsmanlikes and your gone. So if A3 gets called for blocking trying to deny an inbounds early in the game (thats 1), and if he gets tangled up with someone on the fast break making contact from the side or behind when the other player has clear path (thats 2).

These could be the only 2 fouls on the kid in the whole game and DQ'd.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

.

Interpretation:
Because B5 is obviously not making any effort to play the ball and an unsportsmanlike advantage is gained by not allowing the game clock to restart. An unsportsmanlike foul must be called without a warning being given.

I think that this whole "playing the ball" thing is being taken to literally. It is a good gauge when a team is stopping the clock in the last minute or when a guy rakes a breakaway layup shooter's arms, but "playing the ball" is irrelevant when guarding a player without the ball. Based on this logic, displacing a post player should be unsportsmanlike (or intentional for the American game) because the defender isn't "making any effort to play the ball." Continuing on: every illegal screen isn't an effort to play the ball. This is one of the times where I'm glad I don't work FIBA.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by sseltser

I think that this whole "playing the ball" thing is being taken to literally. It is a good gauge when a team is stopping the clock in the last minute or when a guy rakes a breakaway layup shooter's arms, but "playing the ball" is irrelevant when guarding a player without the ball. Based on this logic, displacing a post player should be unsportsmanlike (or intentional for the American game) because the defender isn't "making any effort to play the ball." Continuing on: every illegal screen isn't an effort to play the ball. This is one of the times where I'm glad I don't work FIBA.

I prefer to consider the meaning of "play the ball" as "play basketball": a screen is "playing basketball", but it may be illegal, so usually a common foul.

And this is the normal interpretation of the phrase, except for that stupid rule about fouls by the defensive players during a throw-in.

Ciao

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Yes any foul. Screening, hands, blocking, anything when the ball has not left the inbounders hands is automatic.

ART. 36 UNSPORTSMANLIKE FOUL

Statement
When the ball is out-of-bounds for a throw-in and is still in the hands of the official or is already at the disposal of the thrower-in and at that moment a defensive player on the court causes contact with a player of the team of the thrower-in also on the court and the foul is called, this shall be judged as unsportsmanlike.

...

Any foul committed by the defending team. There's no automatic unsportsmanlike foul for the team in control of the ball.

I hope they will change this interpretation.

Ciao