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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:08pm
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Angry Messed One Up Tonight!!!!

BV game. Team B hits a three point shot to go up three with 3 seconds left. Three person crew. Team A calls timeout. I am the old lead coming to new trail. I administer the throw in. Ball is caught by A1. A1 takes two dribles and launches a three point attempt and is knocked to the floor. Old trail, new lead calls foul. Clock reads 0.0, packed gym and I believe the horn has sounded. After calming Team B coach and players down, A1 steps to free throw line to shoot 3 shots with no one lined up on the lane. Hits the first two and misses the third. I am the R on the crew. Myself and the lead begin to head off the floor and the teams begin to head toward the handshake. The C blows his whistle and beckons us back to the floor. I look up and see 0.9 on the clock. The C tells me there was 0.9 on the clock at the time of the foul and he has no doubt about it. I pull the crew away from the teams and we discuss it and he says he is positive there are 0.9 seconds left and that is why he didn't leave the floor and he instructed the timer to add the time. As you can imagine, the team B coach goes crazy!!!! The team A coach wants A1 to get another shot because no one was lined up and wants a violation on B. I tell both coaches we are not going to reshoot any of the free throws because it is not a correctable error situation and A1 shot all three of his merited free throws. I know we are in deep yogurt at this point. The arrow is in favor of team B and we award team B a throw in on the endline because we had a missed free throw and no one played it believing the game was over. B1 throws the pass and, wouldn't you know it, hits a speaker near the ceiling trying to throw it the length of the floor. Team A inbounds and gets a clean shot off that goes in and out and since the basketball gods were with us, team B wins. A total crew screw up from many angles I know, and, as the R, I take that responsibility! Trust me, this situation will never happen again. Myself, the lead, and both teams thought time had expired and the game was over after the miss. Imagine my shock when the C blew his whistle and called us back out. Besides the obvious of get together after the foul call and sort everything out, time, shooter, # of shots, etc., once we screwed the pooch, is there any other way we could've handled this? What would you have done? I am just glad it was a high school game and not a college game...
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:18pm
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I have nothing to quote to back this up, but I think when the last free throw clanked, the game was over. It was too late at this point to put any time back on the clock.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walter View Post
Trust me, this situation will never happen again.
I'm mostly interested to know what you plan to do to make sure this sort of thing doesn't occur again. Secondly, I would've paid good money to be a fly on the wall when you spoke to the C after the game. Care to repeat any of that speech?
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:32pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I have nothing to quote to back this up, but I think when the last free throw clanked, the game was over. It was too late at this point to put any time back on the clock.
Timer errors can be corrected at any time, but this is a new one. Who instructed the timer to put .9 back on? Did he do it on his own?
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I have nothing to quote to back this up, but I think when the last free throw clanked, the game was over. It was too late at this point to put any time back on the clock.
Isn't the game only officially over once all officials leave the visual confines of the court? I believe any scoring/clock error can be corrected as long as one of the officials remains.

Besides having the C inform both officials about adding time back on the court, I think the situation was handled correctly. You can't re-shoot the last free throw and there is no correctable error because Team A shot all merited free throws. You have to use the AP because the ball became dead with neither team in control and no goal, infraction nor end of quarter/extra period was involved (since your C added time back on the clock). All and all a messy situation, but I think you handled it as best as possible.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:45pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
You have to use the AP because the ball became dead with neither team in control and no goal, infraction nor end of quarter/extra period was involved.....

But, according to two out of the three officials, the end of the quarter was involved. This is not a correctable error, and by rule I see no way to proceed from here.

2-3 or game over.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:46pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
But, according to two out of the three officials, the end of the quarter was involved. This is not a correctable error, and by rule I see no way to proceed from here.

2-3 or game over.
It's not a vote.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:50pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
But, according to two out of the three officials, the end of the quarter was involved. This is not a correctable error, and by rule I see no way to proceed from here.

2-3 or game over.
While the C should of done a better job of communicating his definite knowledge of a timing error, I believe since he did have knowledge of the error, and since all three officials did not leave the confines of the court, the game is not over and the error can be corrected.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:51pm
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C screwed this by rule

2-5 ART. 5 . . . Decide matters upon which the timer and scorer disagree and
correct obvious timing errors.

When did he reset the clock? and how did he do it? There was a foul so he should not have been near the table as the new lead called the foul and would have gone table side. No one noticed he went to the table? I think I would have yanked him off the floor .... If he did not come to the crew before the shots the crew most likely did it right...


I think this is where BEFORE you shoot the shots that the crew has to get together and get it right... I have a foul.. Did we hear the horn? Is the clock right? Once you have that figured out you can shoot your shots. Take your time --- getting this right is the only thing that matters..
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:52pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
It's not a vote.
That was not the point. The game was proceeding as if time was out. If this is the case, when the last free throw missed, the quarter/game was over. For one official, after watching the free throws with no players on the lane, to then say, "By the way, there was some time left," bring us to an undocumented point, does it not? What if he had said there should have been .9 more in the third quarter?
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
That was not the point. The game was proceeding as if time was out. If this is the case, when the last free throw missed, the quarter/game was over. For one official, after watching the free throws with no players on the lane, to then say, "By the way, there was some time left," bring us to an undocumented point, does it not? What if he had said there should have been .9 more in the third quarter?
Obviously, it's too late to go back to the third quarter and fix it. If, however, the C knew for sure time should go back up, then time should go back up. It's not as if you're in the OT and someone wants to fix it.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin green View Post
C screwed this by rule

2-5 ART. 5 . . . Decide matters upon which the timer and scorer disagree and
correct obvious timing errors.

When did he reset the clock? and how did he do it? There was a foul so he should not have been near the table as the new lead called the foul and would have gone table side. No one noticed he went to the table? I think I would have yanked him off the floor .... If he did not come to the crew before the shots the crew most likely did it right...


I think this is where BEFORE you shoot the shots that the crew has to get together and get it right... I have a foul.. Did we hear the horn? Is the clock right? Once you have that figured out you can shoot your shots. Take your time --- getting this right is the only thing that matters..
I agree, you as referee cannot let the C add time on to the clock without your approval. You saw 0:00 as did the other official. Unless you have some other absolute proof, game is over and C doesn't get to take shower until hot water has run out.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 11:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walter View Post
BV game. Team B hits a three point shot to go up three with 3 seconds left. Three person crew. Team A calls timeout. I am the old lead coming to new trail. I administer the throw in. Ball is caught by A1. A1 takes two dribles and launches a three point attempt and is knocked to the floor. Old trail, new lead calls foul.
I am curious about where this shot was taken. 3 seconds.....length of the floor to go.......two dribbles and launches........lead makes the call?
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Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 12:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Timer errors can be corrected at any time....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Obviously, it's too late to go back to the third quarter and fix it.

So where do we draw the line? Seriously.
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Old Wed Feb 17, 2010, 12:14am
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Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant View Post
I agree, you as referee cannot let the C add time on to the clock without your approval. You saw 0:00 as did the other official. Unless you have some other absolute proof, game is over and C doesn't get to take shower until hot water has run out.
I don't know about you, but if my partner is absolutely adamant that he saw time on the clock, I'd more than likely add time on the clock
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