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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 01:36pm
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Louisville-Syracuse Int. Foul

Did anyone see the end of the Louisville-Syracuse game. The orangemen were whistled for an intentional foul late and I just didn't think it was one. I think the trail on the play would have had the best look and could have helped out. From leads angle it looked bad at first, but replay showed it wasn't anything more than a personal foul. Do you that saw it agree? OR am I wrong. I just don't see me calling a intentional on it.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 01:40pm
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Question: was the player attempting to play the ball?
The replay I saw was inconclusive on that question, so I would defer to the judgment of the official who made the call. He didn't hesitate on it.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 01:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Question: was the player attempting to play the ball?
The replay I saw was inconclusive on that question, so I would defer to the judgment of the official who made the call. He didn't hesitate on it.
I know that's a rule of thumb for intentional fouls, but it's not in the NFHS rule (don't know the NCAAM rule).

By the criteria stated in the rule -- excessive contact or deliberately attempting to neutralize an opponent's obviously advantageous position -- this call would not be appropriate, IMO.

I'm aware that there's a case play that employs the rule of thumb (in scare quotes, whatever that's supposed to signify) about an end-of-game situation. I guess I'm just wondering about the status of the rule of thumb.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 01:51pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
I know that's a rule of thumb for intentional fouls, but it's not in the NFHS rule (don't know the NCAAM rule).
It's in the rule. 4-19-3
Quote:
An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul which neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position. Contact away from the ball or when not making a legitimate attempt to play the ball or a player, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting, shall be intentional....
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 01:57pm
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intent

His intent was to stop the clock, but according to rule you can intend to foul for strategy sake. From the replay I think he was trying for the ball and hit the guy in the shoulder as the offensive players body shifted. My thinking is that the Lead who called the foul had a bad view. Would you be ok on a play like this if the trail had a view on it if he came in and gave input that may have detered the lead from making it intentional? OR do you think the trail should have said nothing and just let the leads call stand? This is under the assumption that the trail saw the foul and deemed it non-intentional.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 01:58pm
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Originally Posted by PIAA REF View Post
His intent was to stop the clock, but according to rule you can intend to foul for strategy sake. From the replay I think he was trying for the ball and hit the guy in the shoulder as the offensive players body shifted. My thinking is that the Lead who called the foul had a bad view. Would you be ok on a play like this if the trail had a view on it if he came in and gave input that may have detered the lead from making it intentional? OR do you think the trail should have said nothing and just let the leads call stand? This is under the assumption that the trail saw the foul and deemed it non-intentional.
I'm ok if they go the other way, but I wouldn't really be all that appreciative if my partner came in and tried to talk me out of an intentional. I watched the replay a few times and really couldn't tell, but the official right there made very decisive and quick call on it.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 02:01pm
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I just watched it again, and I think he got it right. The player gives a quick little shoulder shove, and the calling official had a great look between the players on it.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 02:07pm
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not sure

I am not sure how I feel about someone coming in and talking whether it should have been or not. I remember a game where someone beat my whistle and had a personal when I was 100% sure I was going intentional. I just ate it, but thought about talking to him but didn't
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 02:14pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I just watched it again, and I think he got it right. The player gives a quick little shoulder shove, and the calling official had a great look between the players on it.
Link? Can't find it on youtube.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 02:15pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
It's in the rule. 4-19-3
Duh. I recalled only clause #1.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 02:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIAA REF View Post
From the replay I think he was trying for the ball and hit the guy in the shoulder as the offensive players body shifted. My thinking is that the Lead who called the foul had a bad view.
From a live view and numerous replays, I think that he deliberately grabbed his opponent's shoulder and pulled him backward. Contact alone would have sent the player with the ball in the opposite direction. He also would have had to go through his opponent to get at the ball; he was behind him. My thinking is that the official that made the call got it right.

And note also that I detest Louisville because their coach is one of the all-time great scumbags, right up there with Calipari and his ilk. Be that as it may, it was still the correct and proper call imo.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 02:47pm
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Originally Posted by DLH17 View Post
Link? Can't find it on youtube.
Syr Lou ending - Basketballrefs.com

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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 03:03pm
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With it happening in "real time" I can see where the call was made as you don't have time to ponder the moment as you do in hindsight. However, in the NCAA could the officials have viewed the monitor??

Also, why is it not an Intentional Foul when towards the end of games players will intentionally wrap a player up to stop the clock? I have always wondered about this example
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 03:07pm
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Originally Posted by Larks View Post

Sorta looks like a flop to me. There, I said it.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2010, 04:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH17 View Post
Sorta looks like a flop to me. There, I said it.
I agree. Just don't think it was an intentional foul.
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