Officials Uniform Problems

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Recently there has been some discussion regarding all our members wearing a gold trimmed flag patch, often described as being a, "War flag", that should only be worn by military personnel.

I've heard this claim made several times but have never see any actual documentation to back it up.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I've heard this claim made several times but have never see any actual documentation to back it up.

Here's the easy answer:
The gold trim is found on ceremonial flags, to be used indoors and for ceremonies only. They originally were used on military flags. The fringe has no specific significance, but is considered completely within the guidelines of proper flag etiquette. There is nothing in the flag code indicating that the fringe is for federal government flags only. The Internet contains many sites that claim that the fringe indicates martial law or that the Constitution does not apply in that area. These are entirely unfounded and should be dismissed as urban legends, usually citing Executive Order 10834 and inventing text that is not part of the order.

Here's the more complex answer:
The United States Military Flag With The Gold Fringe
FLAG Martial Law; "Pursuant to 4 U.S.C. chapter 1, §§1, 2, & 3; Executive Order 10834, August 21, 1959; 24 F.R.6865; a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE border on three sides. The president of the United States designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief.
President, Dwight David Eisenhower, by Executive Order No.10834, signed on August 21, 1959 and printed in the Federal Register at 24 F.R. 6865, pursuant to law, stated that: "A military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a Yellow Fringe border on three sides."
Display Of Military Flag
National flags listed below are for indoor display and for use in ceremonies and parades. For these purposes the United States flag will be rayon banner cloth, trimmed on three sides with golden yellow fringe, 2 1/2 inches wide. It will be the same size as the flags displayed or carried with it.
Any courtroom that displays these flags behind the Judge is a military courtroom. You are under military law and not constitutional law, or common law, or civil law, or statute law.
Unauthorized use of official flags, guidons, and streamers. Display or use of flags, guidons, and streamers or replicas thereof, including those presently or formerly carried by U.S. Army units, by other than the office, individual, or organization for which authorized, is prohibited except as indicated in below.
Use only by recognized United States Army division associations . . . ." United States Army Regulation AR 640-10, October 1, 1979
According to Army Regulations, (AR 840-10, Oct. 1, 1979.) "the Flag is trimmed on three sides with Fringe of Gold, 2 1/2 inches wide," and that, "such flags are flown indoors, ONLY in military courtrooms." And that the Gold Fringed Flag is not to be carried by anyone except units of the United States Army, and the United States Army division associations."
The Authority For Fringe On The Flag Is Specified In Army Regulations, But Only For The National (Military) Flag !
The U.S. Attorney General has stated: "The placing of a gold fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag, and the arrangements of the stars in the union are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but are within the discretion of the President as Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy . . . ancient custom sanctions the use of fringe on regimental colors and standards, but there seems to be no good reason or precedent for its use on other flags . . . the use of such a fringe is prescribed in current Army Regulations, No. 260-10." (See 34 Ops. Atty. Gen. 483 & 485) The only statute or regulation, in the United States, prescribing a yellow fringed United States flag is Army Regulation No. 260-10, making it a military flag.
By Army Regulation 260-10, The Gold Fringe May Be Used Only On Regimental "Colors," The President's Flag, For Military Courts Martial, And The Flags Used At Military Recruiting Centers. "A Military Flag Emblem Of A Nation, Usually Made Of Cloth And Flown From A Staff; From A Military Standpoint Flags Are Of Two General Classes...Those Flown From Stationary Masts Over Army Posts, And Those Carried By Troops In Formation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Rutledge: Are you referring to The United States Code Title 36 Chapter 10 Article 176 J:

No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.

I did not have the honor and privilege of serving my country, but my late father served in WWII, fought his way across Africa and Italy, and received a medal for his participation in the Battle of Rome Arno. In his honor, and in his memory, I proudly wear a flag patch on my laboratory coat at work. If I'm doing something wrong, then they can come and arrest me.

Our local board started wearing flag patches during the first Persian Gulf War. Recently there has been some discussion regarding all our members wearing a gold trimmed flag patch, often described as being a, "military flag", that should only be worn by military personnel.

Discussions like this regarding the appropriateness of wearing, or not wearing, a flag patch are not just petty "code" debates, but, rather, are reminders to all of us about the importance of a symbol of our freedom, that some take for granted as they move through our everyday lives. Citizens of North Korea, Iran, and other oppressive countries, could be arrested for just discussing the appropriateness of wearing, or not wearing, a flag patch.

Billy,

My father is currently buried in a military cemetery in Memphis, Tennessee. So I do take this rather seriously. And my father served in Korea and his tombstone reflects his service. I do not fell in principle that we should be wearing them on officiating uniforms. Now what others do is their right to do. I am not going to be critical or judge those that do not agree with my position that is the beauty of the country. I just feel patriotism is more than wearing a flag on your shoulder or uniform.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I just feel patriotism is more than wearing a flag on your shoulder or uniform.

Agree.

[Welpe]

Well that's about the closet I've seen, so thanks for posting that Billy. Since US Army regulations do not apply to civilians in most circumstances, I am dubious as to their application outside of a military setting. This is a moot point to me anyways as I do not wear a flag on my uniform but I always find it to be a curious debate.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Well that's about the closet I've seen, so thanks for posting that Billy.

Billy came out of the closet? No images, please.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Billy came out of the closet? No images, please.

C'mon JAR, where's your sense of adventure?

Image please!

[Welpe]

Well the military is looking at their don't ask, don't tell policy...

Whoops. Should be closest.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fullor30

In your case it would sound cheesy

Is Wisconsin's association rather loosely based? I'm not familar with it. As I mentioned, IHSA is a big deal here.

Back to this:

NCAA officials don't wear patches, except in their tournament. I would think the barrier to entry there would be considerably higher than getting high school games.

I've worked in 6 different patch states (PA, TN, LA, WA, MA, IL) and I prefer not having to put a patch on uniforms to work games.

(There are some rec assigners here who pay more for licensed officials, but those people always seem to recognize me (the once or twice a year I do rec) from working their town's varsity games, so I never have to show my card. But they could ask for a card, which would go further to identify a licensed official. I could get an extra patch from just about anyone -- doesn't mean I'm actually licensed.)

For me, the best part is not having to have special stuff for the handful of college games I work every season.

[IowaMike]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I'm going to disagree with you Rich, as it shows you're properly licensed, otherwise any chooch can go to Dick's, buy a shirt and start 'reffing' which some do on maverick park district stuff. It's very noticable here if you don't have a patch. Another patch of pride is a state final patch which the lucky ones wear and it's also worn with pride. The IHSA in Illinois is a very large and strong association which requires a few things to become licensed. It may sound corny, but I'm proud to wear that patch.

I never wear the state patch on my shirt and a lot of guys don't. The only games in Iowa that you have to be certified with the state high school association to work are sanctioned high school games. Middle school games only require one state certified official. It is the responsibility of the school hiring the official (or a conference assigner) to make sure that they are properly certified. If they are doing their job, what you describe above won't happen. You don't have to be certified to work rec league ball here.

I worked varsity ball in Illinois for several years too and never wore a patch there either. It never was a problem. If you aren't certified you should be weeded out by the schools/assigners.

[Smitty]

I wore a patch in Oregon, but no patches in Texas. I love not having to tape a patch onto my shirt. It's more a pain than anything.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by bwstudentref

Dont all d-1 college officials wear the flag on their shirt?

Thanks,
bwstudentref

Varies from conference to conference and supervisor to supervisor. It is not mandatory from the NCAA. It's another one of those "when in Rome" things.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CLH

Varies from conference to conference and supervisor to supervisor. It is not mandatory from the NCAA. It's another one of those "when in Rome" things.

I do not even see this from a conference standpoint. I rarely see officials have them on at all at this level. Not to say I am paying that close attention, I just have not seen it that much.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

You don't have to be certified to work rec league ball here.

Around here, if you want to work men's wreck ball, you have to be certifiable and you get to wear this shirt.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Around here, if you want to work men's wreck ball, you have to be certifiable and you get to wear this shirt.

I'm guessing that bar is set pretty high in your area.