Looking at Backs

[rainmaker]

Okay, so I haven't done very much 3-whistle at all! Still, I'll need it sooner or later, so I'm going back over notes from 3-whistle camp, and looking at various situations on the WNBA play-offs and trying to learn a littl something. And it appears to me that the center is mostly looking at backs. I mean, if the ball swings across the top of the key and then drives quickly down toward the basket, it's in the center's primary, but all I'm seeing is backs! How do I know if that wild arm swing got the proverbial "all-ball"? Or not? Or what?

[JRutledge]

Basically Juulie, the Center in NF and NCAA Women's mechanics is about calling off ball. And when the ball rotates to your side in NCAA Women's, the Lead should be moving to your side very quickly if you are the C. So you do not spend a lot of time at the C position in NCAA Women's which also mirrors WNBA Mechanics quite closely. But if you are doing NF mechanics, the C might be the C for a bit longer. So mostly what you are going to worry about is screens, cuts and rebounding action if your partners are doing their jobs. You would only call things on the C if you had a clean look at a shot or some contact, but if you have to guess, leave it alone. You want to get the "elephants" not the "ants" if you will.

I hope that made sense. Probably not.

Peace

[devdog69]

I agree with what Jeff said and to add to it: When a shot goes up and misses you will not be looking at backs, but will have the best angles to see any rebounding fouls, i.e., the proverbial "over the back". You will also be seeing lots of off-ball screens when the ball is opposite. I was told that if the ball and all the action is on the other side of the court that you should take a couple of steps in on the court and get a closer look, but of course, don't get caught out there when the swing pass comes across. For the most part, keep a wide enough angle so you are aware when your partner is coming across at lead. You don't have to jump out to trail immediately, especially if you have a good angle on a dribbler being closely gaurded right in front of you, but you will at least know that you are the new lead if the ball reverses quickly down the court. It is very frustrating to have a partner that misses a rotation time after time and makes us all look like bumbling idiots.

[PAULK1]

Try this, see if it helps. When you have a drive into the C's primary from out top step down(a step or two) towards the endline with the drive. This will give you a better angle to see in front of the offensive player. Remember to keep your wide angle but quickly find the defenders in front of the driver so you can make a good block/charge call if needed.

[Todd Springer]

These guys are giving good advice. I would add one thing. Don't get your feet planted in cement. The free throw line extended is a place to start. It is a good home base, but you are not glued to that spot. You may take a step down, or up to get a good look. Try to move so that you get a good LANE OF VISION. You don't need to move if you can see. You DO need to move if you can't. If you are seeing backs, you need to move to try to get an open look. One more thing. I think when we start to referee, we take the attitude of,"that might be a foul. I better call it!" We should take the opposite attitude of, "That might be a foul. I am not sure so I am not going to call it." Call the obvious. I hope that helps.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Todd Springer
Don't get your feet planted in cement. The free throw line extended is a place to start. It is a good home base, but you are not glued to that spot. You may take a step down, or up to get a good look.

Would this include stepping clear onto the floor?

I see the point about the C not seeing much of this. But I've seen several times when the ball is clearly in the Center's primary (Lead hadn't rotated yet), the ball-handler has their back to the Center, the defender is completely out of view behind the ball-handler, the defender swings (with or without a shot) and the ball flies wild. There MAY have been a foul, but maybe not. Some of these that I've seen, the C whistled, some no one did. How did the center know?

I myself was in this position a number of times at 3-whistle camp. I tended to call it, but didn't feel very confident. It was probably the case that the Lead should have rotated, but didn't do it soon enough. So when we are all more experienced these situations will be much reduced. I think that's what you are saying.

In the meantime, if I should find myself in this situation again, I will (a) try to step up or down for a better inside look, (b) not call, if I'm not sure, (c) talk to my partner later about rotating sooner.

And, I would suppose, go over it in pre-game.

[LarryS]

I just finished a 3-whistle camp and my evaluators stressed DO NOT GUESS. On the real quick swing pass into your primary followed by a drive in which you are straight-lined it is better to have to tell the coach you didn't see it than to guess wrong. There will be times when the lead will not have time to rotate...stuff happens.

I know others who were at the camp post on this board, they may have been told something different.

As an aside, the title of the post reminds me of one of those "DUH" moments. My 3-whistle experience totals 7 games (all in camps). I was having trouble picking up the rotations given all the other things on my evaluations. One of the more experienced officials pointed out that if you are looking at the players backs from T, you missed a rotation and if you get to 2 on a 5-second closely guarded count at C you probably need to move. After I thought "DUH..how simple" I applied it in the last 3 games this weekend and only missed one rotation. Funny how hearing something worded differently can make such a difference.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by LarryS
As an aside, the title of the post reminds me of one of those "DUH" moments. My 3-whistle experience totals 7 games (all in camps). I was having trouble picking up the rotations given all the other things on my evaluations. One of the more experienced officials pointed out that if you are looking at the players backs from T, you missed a rotation and if you get to 2 on a 5-second closely guarded count at C you probably need to move. After I thought "DUH..how simple" I applied it in the last 3 games this weekend and only missed one rotation.

True perhaps but remember that it's always better to have two Centers than to have two Trails! The Center should be the last official to rotate.

Juules, in the play you describe, you don't want to guess. But here's a rule of thumb I sometimes use. If the defender swipes down and the ball goes down, he probably got mostly ball. But if he swipes down and the ball goes up, you can be pretty darn sure there was a foul.

As Todd said, you can most certainly close down. And yes, that does mean stepping onto the court. However, there's nothing wrong with the Lead coming across to your side of the lane to get the foul that you're straightlined on. If there's a drive down your side of the lane from the top of the key, the worst thing the lead can do is rotate then. As lead, you do not want to get caught and have to officiate from under the basket. This game is all about angles. Either side of the basket is great but under the basket is no man's land. Think of it as hot water that you want to stay out of, because that's exactly what it is.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
If the defender swipes down and the ball goes down, he probably got mostly ball. But if he swipes down and the ball goes up, you can be pretty darn sure there was a foul.

Tony,
I like that alot.
Thanks!
mick

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

True perhaps but remember that it's always better to have two Centers than to have two Trails! The Center should be the last official to rotate.

Very true statement. If you need to move at C to get the angle, try to step down instead of out to do so, since stepping out could cause the crew to now have 2 Ts.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by LarryS
One of the more experienced officials pointed out that if you are looking at the players backs from T, you missed a rotation and if you get to 2 on a 5-second closely guarded count at C you probably need to move

So how was Glen Dixon as a clinician?

[LarryS]

Originally posted by bigwhistle

So how was Glen Dixon as a clinician?

I met so many great officials at the camp that I honestly don't remember who it was that gave me the tip. I will say that everyone I spoke with was great and more than happy to explain things as many times as necessary and answer all your questions (even if it was the 50th time they had heard it asked). They finally got it through to me that it is not as hard as I was trying to make it out to be.

Now if I can just keep from ball-watching when I am getting really tired or the game is a sloppy blow-out.

[devdog69]

Originally posted by mick

Tony,
I like that alot.
Thanks!
mick

Mick, I hope you were joking. Although, I don't dispute the validity of the statement, I almost got sick at my stomach thinking of calling a foul based on something such as this.

Coach: How the hel! can you call that, his back was to you and you couldn't see it, and he got all ball, and he was all-world last year, and has never been called for a violation, much less a foul, blah, blah, blah, blah...

Mr. Official: Well, coach, ya see, he swiped down and the ball went up, and I have found thru my extensive research that that is generally an infraction of the rules.

Things that make you say hmmmm...

[devdog69]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Would this include stepping clear onto the floor?

I see the point about the C not seeing much of this. But I've seen several times when the ball is clearly in the Center's primary (Lead hadn't rotated yet), the ball-handler has their back to the Center, the defender is completely out of view behind the ball-handler, the defender swings (with or without a shot) and the ball flies wild. There MAY have been a foul, but maybe not. Some of these that I've seen, the C whistled, some no one did. How did the center know?

I myself was in this position a number of times at 3-whistle camp. I tended to call it, but didn't feel very confident. It was probably the case that the Lead should have rotated, but didn't do it soon enough. So when we are all more experienced these situations will be much reduced. I think that's what you are saying.

In the meantime, if I should find myself in this situation again, I will (a) try to step up or down for a better inside look, (b) not call, if I'm not sure, (c) talk to my partner later about rotating sooner.

And, I would suppose, go over it in pre-game.

Definitely, in the pre-game would be a good time to talk about such things. When I am conducting the pre-game I will tell the other guys that I will not call across the lane from lead and that if they don't get the proper angle at C we will get fried, now that is not exactly the truth, as I will get the trainwreck. But, I will pass on anything gray if it is across the lane, relying on my C to pick it up or go to the grave with it. That being said, I would hope I would be rotated quick enough to be on the proper side, I think the college women's mechanic of rotating quicker helps keep everyone in proper position as well as their minds in the game.

[mick]

Originally posted by devdog69

Mick, I hope you were joking. Although, I don't dispute the validity of the statement, I almost got sick at my stomach thinking of calling a foul based on something such as this.

devdog69,
I really like it !
Many times have I said to myself:

"I shoulda called something."

"I didn't see it clearly."

"Aw, crap! What happened?"

"Where's my Center?"

"...Kicked another one!"
It's a new tool that I intend to use. It beats the hack out of a wild guess with good logic.
mick