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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 05:48pm
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Clock starts early

Just talked to a fellow official who had this happen to him over the weekend. Team A shooting 1 FT, down by 2 points with 0.7 seconds left. Shot bounces off back of rim, as soon as it is touched by A2, horn goes off. Clearly (as described by him) the clock started early, but nobody saw exactly when it started. Rightfully they ended the game.

My question is what do you do if you see the clock start as the shot is in the air? If you blow your whistle while the ball is in the air and the shot is made, I assume you would give it to team B with 0.7 on the clock and an endline throw-in? If the shot is missed, am I correct to assume that you would put 0.7 back on and go to the arrow?
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 06:08pm
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I'm not sure, but here it goes.

I would not blow my whistle while the shot is in flight. I would either wait for the horn then blow, or wait until the shot finishes, before correcting the situation (not to mention that in this situation you most likely will never see the clock running before it sounds, because you have other responsibilities during a FT than watching the clock.)

If the shot is missed and the horn sounds before the ball is touched I would go to the PA and reset to .7. if the shot is missed and touched before the horn sounds, I would do the same except I would consider taking the clock down to .5 (or something to account for the touch) If the FT is made its easy, give it to the other team, and reset to .7

...Probably wouldn't end the game if I know for sure that it started to early, especially since it was rebounded by team A (then down by a basket)
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:30pm
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Originally Posted by IchiRef View Post
I'm not sure, but here it goes.

I would not blow my whistle while the shot is in flight. I would either wait for the horn then blow, or wait until the shot finishes, before correcting the situation (not to mention that in this situation you most likely will never see the clock running before it sounds, because you have other responsibilities during a FT than watching the clock.)

If the shot is missed and the horn sounds before the ball is touched I would go to the PA and reset to .7. if the shot is missed and touched before the horn sounds, I would do the same except I would consider taking the clock down to .5 (or something to account for the touch) If the FT is made its easy, give it to the other team, and reset to .7

...Probably wouldn't end the game if I know for sure that it started to early, especially since it was rebounded by team A (then down by a basket)
You can't just arbitrarily decide to put 0.5 back without definite knowledge of how much time should be left - I believe they handled the play correctly since no one knew for sure when the clock was started. The question is more how to handle if you DO see it and blow your whistle during the shot or prior to a touch. I believe you have to go to AP if the shot is missed, and give the ball to team B if the shot is made - in either case putting 0.7 back on the clock..
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:47pm
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Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
Just talked to a fellow official who had this happen to him over the weekend. Team A shooting 1 FT, down by 2 points with 0.7 seconds left. Shot bounces off back of rim, as soon as it is touched by A2, horn goes off. Clearly (as described by him) the clock started early, but nobody saw exactly when it started. Rightfully they ended the game.

My question is what do you do if you see the clock start as the shot is in the air? If you blow your whistle while the ball is in the air and the shot is made, I assume you would give it to team B with 0.7 on the clock and an endline throw-in? If the shot is missed, am I correct to assume that you would put 0.7 back on and go to the arrow?

Good one............with only 0.7 seconds I doubt you'd have time to blow while ball is in air, at best horn and whistle go off at same time. That said, I have no idea what you'd do. Easy one is first sitch if free throw is good, and horn goes off, you have definite knowledge of timing error. In second sitch, your choice sounds like the right one.

I'll wait for elders to speak on this one.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 09:58pm
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Originally Posted by fullor30 View Post
Good one............with only 0.7 seconds I doubt you'd have time to blow while ball is in air, at best horn and whistle go off at same time. That said, I have no idea what you'd do. Easy one is first sitch if free throw is good, and horn goes off, you have definite knowledge of timing error. In second sitch, your choice sounds like the right one.

I'll wait for elders to speak on this one.
Agreed best case is shot is made. In this case though the girl was trying to miss it since they were down 2, so it really puts them in a tough spot. Best team A can hope for is that you blow it dead before the free throw ends and they have the AP because if you don't catch it before it is touched, it is going to be hard to have definite knowledge of anything with so little time left.
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Old Thu Jan 28, 2010, 10:02pm
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Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
Agreed best case is shot is made. In this case though the girl was trying to miss it since they were down 2, so it really puts them in a tough spot. Best team A can hope for is that you blow it dead before the free throw ends and they have the AP because if you don't catch it before it is touched, it is going to be hard to have definite knowledge of anything with so little time left.
Sounds like they did the right thing. Were visitors shooting?
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Old Fri Jan 29, 2010, 01:14am
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In this situation, with the horn sounding as the player caught the ball, you know they should have possession with 0.7 on the clock. Set it to 0.7 and give them the ball for a throwin.

If the horn sounded after they caught it but clearly early, you'd have to know how much early to make a correction...and give them the ball for a throwin.
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Old Fri Jan 29, 2010, 09:14am
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
In this situation, with the horn sounding as the player caught the ball, you know they should have possession with 0.7 on the clock. Set it to 0.7 and give them the ball for a throwin.

If the horn sounded after they caught it but clearly early, you'd have to know how much early to make a correction...and give them the ball for a throwin.

You are really walking a fine line in this situation though aren't you? If you are going to give them the ball then you are asserting that they had possession - in order for them to have possession don't you agree that someamount of time must have run off?
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Old Fri Jan 29, 2010, 01:11pm
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This is why I suggested taking .2-.3 off the clock, its enough for team A to establish possession....

Team A would still have time to catch and shoot. (like they would have had if the clock didn't start early) I'm not going to end the game just because I don't know for sure whether it was .2 or .3 seconds went off the clock. The fact is, I would know for sure that some time should still be on the clock. I would use common sense and leave some amount of time on the clock and Team A has earned the chance to win the game. (by intentionally missing and getting the rebound)
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Old Fri Jan 29, 2010, 02:01pm
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Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
You can't just arbitrarily decide to put 0.5 back without definite knowledge of how much time should be left - I believe they handled the play correctly since no one knew for sure when the clock was started. The question is more how to handle if you DO see it and blow your whistle during the shot or prior to a touch. I believe you have to go to AP if the shot is missed, and give the ball to team B if the shot is made - in either case putting 0.7 back on the clock..
Rule book does allow for educated guessing in situations like this. Can't remember where it is in the rulebook but this was brought up in a thread recently. I would put something like .5 seconds left. In this case, anything above .3 would be satisfying for me since anything under a second and above .3 second would mean the team is just going to inbound it and shoot it right away.

Or am I thinking of something different with regards to correcting the time?
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Old Fri Jan 29, 2010, 02:09pm
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Originally Posted by representing View Post
Rule book does allow for educated guessing in situations like this. Can't remember where it is in the rulebook but this was brought up in a thread recently. I would put something like .5 seconds left. In this case, anything above .3 would be satisfying for me since anything under a second and above .3 second would mean the team is just going to inbound it and shoot it right away.

Or am I thinking of something different with regards to correcting the time?
Not in the rule book but rather from this year's interps.

From 2009-2010 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations:
---
Situation 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the timeout, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1's pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2's touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b) while A2's throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass.

Ruling: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 -- likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A "do over" is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1)
---

Like some others, I find this contradictory. Definite knowledge of likely tenths. You do the math.
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