Pay cut to work 3 man?

[ibOfficial]

Originally Posted by LocDog249

Having moved from a 3 man state to a 2 man state, I am missing the old days. I have come to a realization that I will miss more calls working a 2 man game.
My question is this..... Would officials who work in 2 man states/areas be willing to take their pay for the 2 of them and split it 3 ways? This would show the schools how much better 3 man is without an added cost to them. In NW IL this is what some of the veteran officials were doing to break 3 man in to some of the smaller schools. They would call the school and tell them they are bringing a third, and they can pay them if they want, otherwise the officials will split their pay. I know this would be a big pay cut, but would you be willing to do it?
Personally I would do it. After cutting 2 checks 3 ways, it would be about half of what I made a game in IL, but I don't ref for the money, I do it because I enjoy being yelled at by strangers

While I admire your noble intentions, officiating isn't a charity case; otherwise, let's get every call right and put 6 whistles on the court [of course, no amount of whistles in the world may achieve this goal]. But as you said, where's the fun in that?

[LocDog249]

Originally Posted by ibOfficial

While I admire your noble intentions, officiating isn't a charity case; otherwise, let's get every call right and put 6 whistles on the court [of course, no amount of whistles in the world may achieve this goal]. But as you said, where's the fun in that?

I would actually prefer to see 13 officials on each game.... 1 assigned to watch each particular player, 1 for each bench, and 1 for the table Nothing should ever get missed then

Originally Posted by RichMSN

As far as places where officials associations contract with schools, I simply recommend that if the association wishes to work 3-person in varsity games that they simply say "no, thanks" to schools and conferences that only wish to hire a 2-person crew. They can find their officials elsewhere. Of course, this could lead to a shortage of games for that group.

This seems like a great idea to me. Our association is the only one that provides officials for this area, so I would think that if we just stood firm and said we want 3 man, the schools would have to give it to us if they wanted our associations services. Now I know it wouldn't be something that would happen overnight, but if the schools were giving 2 years or so, knowing the change is coming, they could find the extra money for it. Easiest way to me would be to raise ticket prices $.50-1.00 each season until the change takes effect.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LocDog249

This seems like a great idea to me. Our association is the only one that provides officials for this area, so I would think that if we just stood firm and said we want 3 man, the schools would have to give it to us if they wanted our associations services. Now I know it wouldn't be something that would happen overnight, but if the schools were giving 2 years or so, knowing the change is coming, they could find the extra money for it. Easiest way to me would be to raise ticket prices $.50-1.00 each season until the change takes effect.

This would never work, BTW. There are *always* people willing to work the games. May not be the current set of officials, but could be those who feel they should be working varsity and aren't or whatever. And enough of the current set would work regardless of what the group decided, for whatever reason. When the games went on, officials would start coming back, too.

Do a search on "post-game handshake in Massachusetts". The only reason that's still around is that there were enough officials willing to step over those trying to do the right thing and work games. Or look at the minor league umpire work action of a few years ago....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by LocDog249

I would actually prefer to see 13 officials on each game.... 1 assigned to watch each particular player, 1 for each bench, and 1 for the table Nothing should ever get missed then



This seems like a great idea to me. Our association is the only one that provides officials for this area, so I would think that if we just stood firm and said we want 3 man, the schools would have to give it to us if they wanted our associations services. Now I know it wouldn't be something that would happen overnight, but if the schools were giving 2 years or so, knowing the change is coming, they could find the extra money for it. Easiest way to me would be to raise ticket prices $.50-1.00 each season until the change takes effect.

Are they only getting about 50 people per game who pay? The difference between 2 and 3 is going to be anywhere from $20 to $40 per game. Here in CO, it's $31-$33, depending on whether its a rural school or a city school (city pays a $2 travel stipend to each official while rural schools pay a mileage fee to one official).

[doubleringer]

We went to 3 man full time about 5 years ago around here. Up until then, we did often take a pay cut to work 3 man. I had no problem doing it since I knew it made for a better game and made me a better official for the future. I'd say communicate with your partners and see what they think. If they are willing to take the cut, I'd go 3.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by LocDog249

Having moved from a 3 man state to a 2 man state, I am missing the old days. I have come to a realization that I will miss more calls working a 2 man game.

I moved from a 2-person state (OR) to a 3-person state (TX) this season. We work 3-man for all varsity, 2-man for all sub-varsity unless you do a 2 game set and one of those games is a Varsity game. I had never worked 3-man until this season. I thought 2-man was fine until I had a few 3-man games under my belt and then was assigned a JV game that was actually a Varsity game, so it was assigned a 2-man crew. I realized working that Varsity game 2-man how much we were probably missing without the 3rd man. I am a believer in 3-man.

[Texas Aggie]

I enjoy working 2-person much more

I really don't understand why. I didn't really realize how much there can be missed in a 2 person game until I worked 3 almost exclusively.

Way back when when HS, Juco, and a large amount of small college was still 2 man, I agreed with an assessment about it not really needed at the lower levels. But the HS game now is better than the small college game was 15 years ago and with the floor spread from sideline to sideline up and down the floor, 2 man WILL miss something regardless of how conditioned you are.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I really don't understand why. I didn't really realize how much there can be missed in a 2 person game until I worked 3 almost exclusively.

Way back when when HS, Juco, and a large amount of small college was still 2 man, I agreed with an assessment about it not really needed at the lower levels. But the HS game now is better than the small college game was 15 years ago and with the floor spread from sideline to sideline up and down the floor, 2 man WILL miss something regardless of how conditioned you are.

Tonight was one of those nights where I wish we had 3. We had a lot of jockeying in the post and a lot of cutters and screeners who were either setting borderline screens or getting chucked/held. I remember calling at least 5 off-ball fouls (and we only had 26 fouls total in the game). With 2-person and a trail on ball, the lead has no choice but to miss some of the other activity.

These days I'm in good enough shape to work any teams 2-person. I get a better workout, sure. I do enjoy the challenge. But it doesn't make for better officiating.

[LocDog249]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I really don't understand why. I didn't really realize how much there can be missed in a 2 person game until I worked 3 almost exclusively.

Maybe I should try to get video clips together from some of the games and edit it together so that the coaches can see all the calls that were missed that would have gone in their favor... lol Then just hope they don't realize that there would be a similar amount of calls missed that would go in the other teams favor.

[Jeremy Hohn]

We have to take a pay cut for working 3 person in comparison to 2 person. We are also considering going to a "flat rate" next season with no mileage. What are your associations doing?

[Adam]

I think most areas have a pay cut of some degree compared to the 2 person fees. Here, it's (recommended by the state) $55 for two, or $47 for three.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think most areas have a pay cut of some degree compared to the 2 person fees. Here, it's (recommended by the state) $55 for two, or $47 for three.

Not us man. Three person pays more than two for a single game.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not us man. Three person pays more than two for a single game.

Peace

Must have something to do with Chicago politics.

Seriously, I'm impressed. Is it because the smaller schools are the ones using 2 person for varsity?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Must have something to do with Chicago politics.

Seriously, I'm impressed. Is it because the smaller schools are the ones using 2 person for varsity?

Actually this is not about Chicago at all. I live in the suburbs, but I officiate all over the state from the Northern part to West Central Illinois and Central Illinois. I work big and small schools and every game is 3 Person. The only thing that might happen with some small schools is they ask the officials to work a JV/Varsity double header. But that is starting to go away more and more. I cannot speak for the entire state, but I work in a lot of places and this is the norm across the parts I have seen.

Peace