The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 12:22am
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 794
double whistle- violation/foul question

double whistle. Do you report the foul? I had a travel and partner had a foul on the defense. We ended up going POI given the ball back to the offense and just never reported the foul. told the coaches and they were fine and moved on quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 12:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
double whistle. Do you report the foul? I had a travel and partner had a foul on the defense. We ended up going POI given the ball back to the offense and just never reported the foul. told the coaches and they were fine and moved on quickly.
Pregame this. This would not be acceptable in my area. Come together and decide which happened first and go with that. If they don't like it, too bad.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 12:33am
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Officials are supposed to get together and decide which happened first. 2.6 A&B
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 12:57am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
double whistle. Do you report the foul? I had a travel and partner had a foul on the defense. We ended up going POI given the ball back to the offense and just never reported the foul. told the coaches and they were fine and moved on quickly.
So you just ignored them both? You need to figure which happened first, go with that one.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 08:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 359
Cover this in Pre-game. You can't just put aside the rules. In most cases, you will likely hear officials say, "let's go with the lesser of the two infractions." In your case, that would have been the travel. At camps, they might refer to this as "managing" the game.

I know in our area, if we have a double whistle with a violation/foul, the violation will almost always be the call (unless the foul was excessive/severe).
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 09:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin View Post
In most cases, you will likely hear officials say, "let's go with the lesser of the two infractions." In your case, that would have been the travel. At camps, they might refer to this as "managing" the game.
I have never heard of this --here or anywhere else, including camps. By rule you must determine which happened first (even if they seemed to happen "simultaneously").
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 09:40am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,857
Chicken Or Egg Question ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
I have never heard of this, here or anywhere else, including camps. By rule you must determine which happened first (even if they seemed to happen "simultaneously").
Sometimes the foul causes the player to travel. That's the easy one to take care of in a quick pow wow between the officials. The player who travels into a foul will take a few extra seconds of discussion, but it can be properly taken care of. The type of language that should be used in this pow wow is something like, "I saw your travel, but my foul came first", or, "I saw your foul, but my travel came first".
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 23, 2010 at 09:43am.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 10:02am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
The type of language that should be used in this pow wow is something like, "I saw your travel, but my foul came first", or, "I saw your foul, but my travel came first".
Disagree. All that does is tell your partner that your call is right and his was wrong. I know a few officials that wouldn't take kindly to you taking over the call.

Ask your partner what he had, tell him what you had, and then reach a consensus as to which occurred first.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 10:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Disagree. All that does is tell your partner that your call is right and his was wrong. I know a few officials that wouldn't take kindly to you taking over the call.

Ask your partner what he had, tell him what you had, and then reach a consensus as to which occurred first.
...and generally speaking, the travel was caused by the foul OR the travel happened before the contact. Such a discussion as JR suggests generally leads to a much more relaxed officiating crew for the rest of the game.

Of course, if you continue to disagree, as nevada always says, "First one to the table wins!"
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 11:24am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,857
Good Point ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Disagree. All that does is tell your partner that your call is right and his was wrong. I know a few officials that wouldn't take kindly to you taking over the call. Ask your partner what he had, tell him what you had, and then reach a consensus as to which occurred first.
OK. I see your point. But what I'm saying is not that my partner's call is incorrect, but rather I saw his call, agree with his call, but mine came first. I probably don't have to ask him what he had, I already know if he had a violation (hand), or a foul (fist), and he may have given a travel signal, or a preliminary foul signal.

How about: "I saw your travel, but I believe that my foul came first?", or, "I saw your foul, but I believe that my travel came first?". Better?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 11:40am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Disagree. All that does is tell your partner that your call is right and his was wrong. I know a few officials that wouldn't take kindly to you taking over the call.

Ask your partner what he had, tell him what you had, and then reach a consensus as to which occurred first.
I am going to disagree with you JR on this. Put your ego at the door. If a violation happened first, we need to get the violation. If the foul caused a violation we need to get the foul. And when there is a double whistle like this usually it started in someone's area. The whistle occurred in someone else's area too. I would love if my partner called the first thing and made that clear to me. I never want to make a call that was caused by another violation of the rules. I think I can handle if someone does this to me. It does not happen very often, but it does happen.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 01:03pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
I have never heard of this --here or anywhere else, including camps. By rule you must determine which happened first (even if they seemed to happen "simultaneously").
I've heard it when trying to deteremine between an offensive foul and a travel, but never in discussion about a defensive foul. If the defense caused the travel with the foul, and you choose the "lesser" of the two offenses, you've screwed the offense.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 23, 2010, 02:08pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,961
I ALWAYS pre-game this: If we have an open-hand and closed-fist then we get together and determine which happened first.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
False Double Foul with Held Whistle NewNCref Basketball 18 Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:46am
Transition Foul BC Double Whistle - 3-man Larks Basketball 10 Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:57pm
Double Whistle - 3 second violation and Foul on defense bradfordwilkins Basketball 4 Mon Feb 28, 2005 02:51pm
Double whistle, foul or travel davidw Basketball 6 Thu Feb 07, 2002 04:08pm
Double Whistle:Time Out or Foul? blacktiger Basketball 6 Wed Jan 03, 2001 09:47am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1