double whistle- violation/foul question

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I have never heard of this, here or anywhere else, including camps. By rule you must determine which happened first (even if they seemed to happen "simultaneously").

Sometimes the foul causes the player to travel. That's the easy one to take care of in a quick pow wow between the officials. The player who travels into a foul will take a few extra seconds of discussion, but it can be properly taken care of. The type of language that should be used in this pow wow is something like, "I saw your travel, but my foul came first", or, "I saw your foul, but my travel came first".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The type of language that should be used in this pow wow is something like, "I saw your travel, but my foul came first", or, "I saw your foul, but my travel came first".

Disagree. All that does is tell your partner that your call is right and his was wrong. I know a few officials that wouldn't take kindly to you taking over the call.

Ask your partner what he had, tell him what you had, and then reach a consensus as to which occurred first.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. All that does is tell your partner that your call is right and his was wrong. I know a few officials that wouldn't take kindly to you taking over the call.

Ask your partner what he had, tell him what you had, and then reach a consensus as to which occurred first.

...and generally speaking, the travel was caused by the foul OR the travel happened before the contact. Such a discussion as JR suggests generally leads to a much more relaxed officiating crew for the rest of the game.

Of course, if you continue to disagree, as nevada always says, "First one to the table wins!"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. All that does is tell your partner that your call is right and his was wrong. I know a few officials that wouldn't take kindly to you taking over the call. Ask your partner what he had, tell him what you had, and then reach a consensus as to which occurred first.

OK. I see your point. But what I'm saying is not that my partner's call is incorrect, but rather I saw his call, agree with his call, but mine came first. I probably don't have to ask him what he had, I already know if he had a violation (hand), or a foul (fist), and he may have given a travel signal, or a preliminary foul signal.

How about: "I saw your travel, but I believe that my foul came first?", or, "I saw your foul, but I believe that my travel came first?". Better?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. All that does is tell your partner that your call is right and his was wrong. I know a few officials that wouldn't take kindly to you taking over the call.

Ask your partner what he had, tell him what you had, and then reach a consensus as to which occurred first.

I am going to disagree with you JR on this. Put your ego at the door. If a violation happened first, we need to get the violation. If the foul caused a violation we need to get the foul. And when there is a double whistle like this usually it started in someone's area. The whistle occurred in someone else's area too. I would love if my partner called the first thing and made that clear to me. I never want to make a call that was caused by another violation of the rules. I think I can handle if someone does this to me. It does not happen very often, but it does happen.

Peace