Another one for the newbies

[Mark Padgett]

This comes up quite often. How would you newbies handle it?

Team A to inbound on an AP throw-in. Prior to A1 receiving the ball from the official (ball is dead) A2 commits a foul. Does team A lose the arrow when the foul is administered? What about if the official gave the ball to A1 before the foul (ball is live)?

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

This comes up quite often. How would you newbies handle it?

Team A to inbound on an AP throw-in. Prior to A1 receiving the ball from the official (ball is dead) A2 commits a foul. Does team A lose the arrow when the foul is administered? What about if the official gave the ball to A1 before the foul (ball is live)?

I don't have my books, but I'll give it a shot.

With A2 committing a foul while the ball is dead, wouldn't it be a technical foul? Intentional contact during a dead ball is a technical foul, right?

In this case, B would get two shots and the ball. No change to the arrow.

If the ball were live, on the other hand, B would be awarded the ball (or free throws), and the arrow does change. Once the ball is live on an AP throw in, I know that if Team A violates, the arrow changes because the throw in technically ended, does that logic include a foul by Team A as well?

Fire away. Again, I'm without my books.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I know that if Team A violates, the arrow changes because the throw in technically ended, does that logic include a foul by Team A as well?

No. The A/P is not changed.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

This comes up quite often. How would you newbies handle it?

Team A to inbound on an AP throw-in. Prior to A1 receiving the ball from the official (ball is dead) A2 commits a foul. Does team A lose the arrow when the foul is administered? What about if the official gave the ball to A1 before the foul (ball is live)?

Books are here...but I'm not going to look at them...honest!
1st Sitch:
1) DEAD BALL FOUL= personal technical on A2.
2) Add 1 PF to A2's foul total for the game. (plus 1 tech charged to A2's total of 2 for the game)
3) B shoots 2 technical FT's, with the lane cleared.
4) B then gets the ball for a throw-in at the division line opposite the table.
5) AP arrow does not change. The arrow stays with Team A, as the throw-in did not end due to a Team A violation, it ended because of Team A foul.
2nd sitch:
1) LIVE BALL FOUL=personal foul on A2.
2) No team control on a throw-in
3) If Team B is in bonus, B shoots 1&1.
4) If Team B is not in bonus, B is awarded ball for a throw-in at POI.
5) AP arrow does not change...same reasoning as above.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Books are here...but I'm not going to look at them...honest!
1st Sitch:
1) DEAD BALL FOUL= personal technical on A2.

I'm guessing you know better, but can you double check this definition?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm guessing you know better, but can you double check this definition?

Confusing my definitions....
A flagrant foul can be a personal foul or a technical foul.(4-19-4)

But, am I correct that it's a technical foul? (.."contact an opponent during a dead ball")

Still learning Snags....still learning. Thanks for pointing it out. As I said to Mark, wanted to try it with no book. I'll now anxiously await Prof. Padgett's test grade.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Confusing my definitions....
A flagrant foul can be a personal foul or a technical foul.(4-19-4)

But, am I correct that it's a technical foul? (.."contact an opponent during a dead ball")

Still learning Snags....still learning. Thanks for pointing it out. As I said to Mark, wanted to try it with no book. I'll now anxiously await Prof. Padgett's test grade.

Yes, you are correct that it is a T. The problem in your prior statement was "personal" technical....no such beast. It is either personal or technical but never both.

Also, there is another error in your rulings. See if you can find it. (It is more of a semantics thing and I know what you meant but it is technically incorrect).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

I'll now anxiously await Professor Padgett's test grade.

Professor Padgett is the one on the left.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Professor Padgett is the one on the left.

Priceless!
...."Professor Howard, Professor Padgett, Professor Howard."

[KJUmp]

Cam:
Snags "nabbed me" on the ...no such thing as a personal technical. I appreciate you catching it also...you got me though on the second "semantics" thing...I can't see it. Want to give me hint?
Thanks

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Cam:
Snags "nabbed me" on the ...no such thing as a personal technical. I appreciate you catching it also...you got me though on the second "semantics" thing...I can't see it. Want to give me hint?
Thanks

How should it be recorded in the book? How does it count towards disqualification?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

How should it be recorded in the book? How does it count towards disqualification?

Charged To: Player A2
Counts Toward: 1) 2 Technicals 2) 5 Personals 3) Team-foul count

Is that what you were looking for?

[mbyron]

There's another error as well.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Books are here...but I'm not going to look at them...honest!
1st Sitch:
1) DEAD BALL FOUL= personal technical on A2.
2) Add 1 PF to A2's foul total for the game. (plus 1 tech charged to A2's total of 2 for the game)
3) B shoots 2 technical FT's, with the lane cleared.
4) B then gets the ball for a throw-in at the division line opposite the table.
5) AP arrow does not change. The arrow stays with Team A, as the throw-in did not end due to a Team A violation, it ended because of Team A foul.
2nd sitch:
1) LIVE BALL FOUL=personal foul on A2.
2) No team control on a throw-in
3) If Team B is in bonus, B shoots 1&1.
4) If Team B is not in bonus, B is awarded ball for a throw-in at POI.
5) AP arrow does not change...same reasoning as above.

You only made two minor mistakes. You should write "player technical" or "individual technical" as that is really what you mean here by "personal" and reserve that word for the category of fouls which are not "technical."

In the second situation, Team B would be awarded the ball at the nearest OOB spot to the location of the foul if not in the bonus. That is different from the POI.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Charged To: Player A2
Counts Toward: 1) 2 Technicals 2) 5 Personals 3) Team-foul count

Is that what you were looking for?

Nope.

Also it is not five personal fouls. It is five individual player fouls. These five can be a combination of personal and technical fouls.