Interesting one

[bball_lurker]

Varsity Girls. I couldn't actually hear on this, so I'm just going from what I got second hand, and what I could see from the stands.

Play is stopped. A1 has blood on jersey, ref tells her to change it.

Coach A calls time out, A1 grabs a spare jersey and is now A45. She had a tank top underneath, and changes at the bench. You probably know what's coming now.

The other two refs confer, then all three get together, T on A1. No one around me could figure out what was going on, I knew it from this great forum. No stripping on the court. I was tempted to make a girls gone wild joke, but wasn't sure how it would be received.

My question, while this rule is probably more common on the boys side, it probably is pretty rare on the girls side. As a ref, would you let the player know they have to leave the gym to change jerseys? It had no effect on the game, it was a blowout.

[Smitty]

Personally I would tell the player and the coach that she needed to leave the gym to change jerseys. If I didn't do that, I likely would not T the player, much to nevadaref's chagrin, I'm sure.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

Varsity Girls. I couldn't actually hear on this, so I'm just going from what I got second hand, and what I could see from the stands.

Play is stopped. A1 has blood on jersey, ref tells her to change it. Coach A calls time out, A1 grabs a spare jersey and is now A45. She had a tank top underneath, and changes at the bench. You probably know what's coming now.

Oh, dear...

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

The other two refs confer, then all three get together, T on A1. No one around me could figure out what was going on, I knew it from this great forum. No stripping on the court. I was tempted to make a girls gone wild joke, but wasn't sure how it would be received.

You're a thinker. I like that!

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

My question, while this rule is probably more common on the boys side, it probably is pretty rare on the girls side.

Not as rare as you might think, which I suspect is why the rule was made. I think it's dumb myself, but apparently there was some pretty raucous teasing somewhere sometime, and now we all gotta go out of the gym to change.

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

As a ref, would you let the player know they have to leave the gym to change jerseys?

I would absolutely let the player know as I was making the kid change. A T in this situation is a reflection on my laziness, imo.

[Ref_in_Alberta]

I'm with Smitty on that one. Without instructing the player to leave it's prety hard to justify a T.

Saying that, as I do not officiate games under NF rules, this is an actual rule? FIBA does not address this.

Though to me (if I were a coach) it'd be common sense to have the player (male or female) head to the locker room to change. I guess some young people these days are less modest then when I was in HS.

[grunewar]

I did a lot of GV this summer and fall and it came up quite often where a player would have the wrong color T-shirt on underneath their jersey and they would be informed they needed wouldn't be allowed to participate.

At the beginning of the season some would attempt do that "old trick" where they keep their shirt on but take their undergarment off.........(fascinating....but I digress).

We were instructed not to let this occur, or any, ANY, other action such as this on the court. They all needed to be made out of the visible confines of the court.....took a while, but they/we all got used to it (some went under the bleachers others to the locker room or bathroom). Don't care where, just not on the court where you can be seen.

[BillyMac]

Prep school boys this past Saturday. My partner and I are watching warmups. I note three visitor players with illegal undershirts (wrong color). My partner notes two home players with illegal undershirts (wrong color). We instruct them to change their undershirts, and to do so outside the visual confines of the court.

Maybe the words that we used, i.e., visual confines of the court, were too difficult for prep school players to understand?

It is a really big gymnasium, three ninety-four foot courts, plenty of room outside the endlines and sidelines. Closest locker rooms are a hike and a half away from the court. Bleachers are not the type you can hide behind.

You guessed it, all five players go over to their benches, take of their jerseys, pull off their undershirts, and put their jerseys back on.

Forum members are certainly welcome to criticize us if you want, but we just looked the other way. Wasn't this rule implemented to keep players who foul out from showing contempt for the call by taking off their jersey and throwing it onto the bench?

And it's January. Why do these players think that they can wear any color undershirt that they happen grab out of their bureau drawer? The coaches told me in the pregame that their players were properly equipped. Do these coaches even know what that means? What have my colleagues been doing while watching warmup lines the past month? Of course, my colleagues can think the same thing about me when these players perform the Noxzema Shave Cream "Stripper" commercial in the future.

Man, that was some commercial. She was hot before hot meant hot.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Personally I would tell the player and the coach that she needed to leave the gym to change jerseys. If I didn't do that, I likely would not T the player, much to nevadaref's chagrin, I'm sure.

I've had this situation three times so far this season. I ALWAYS make it a point to instruct both the player and the coach that the change must take place outside of the gym. I've even said to take the player out in the hallway. Because of this I haven't had a problem with the shirt removal in the visual confines rule.

However, if the officials don't engage in good preventative officiating and the team member does remove the jersey inside of the visual confines of the gym, then the officials are obligated to charge the technical foul. That is the rule, it was broken, and you cannot ignore it just because you have not done something which you probably should have.

This is the same as not counting the players and having too many on the court when putting the ball into play. The coaches need to know the rules themselves and have their team members follow them. While the officials should take positive action to help prevent some infractions, the ultimate responsibility rests with the team.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by nevadaref

i've had this situation three times so far this season. I always make it a point to instruct both the player and the coach that the change must take place outside of the gym. I've ever said to take the player out in the hallway. Because of this i haven't had a problem with the shirt removal in the visual confines rule.

However, if the officials don't engage in good preventative officiating and the team member does remove the jersey inside of the visual confines of the gym, then the officials are obligated to charge the technical foul. That is the rule, it was broken, and you cannot ignore it just because you have not done something which you probably should have.

This is the same as not counting the players and having too many on the court when putting the ball into play. The coaches need to know the rules themselves and have their team members follow them. While the officials should take positive action to help prevent some infractions, the ultimate responsibility rests with the team.

+1

[representing]

Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta

I'm with Smitty on that one. Without instructing the player to leave it's prety hard to justify a T.

Saying that, as I do not officiate games under NF rules, this is an actual rule? FIBA does not address this.

Though to me (if I were a coach) it'd be common sense to have the player (male or female) head to the locker room to change. I guess some young people these days are less modest then when I was in HS.

Some gyms around here, it's like a mile hike to get to the locker room. I would allow the player to use a bathroom with the coach going out into the hallway with him/her, or to use a nearby storage room to change. What do you guys think?

EDIT: Just noticed everyone is saying "visual confine of the gymnasium". So that answers my question that they just have to leave the gym to change. If a girl wants to change out in the hallway, I just hope it doesn't end up on youtube

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

Some gyms around here, it's like a mile hike to get to the locker room. I would allow the player to use a bathroom with the coach going out into the hallway with him/her, or to use a nearby storage room to change. What do you guys think?

EDIT: Just noticed everyone is saying "visual confine of the gymnasium". So that answers my question that they just have to leave the gym to change. If a girl wants to change out in the hallway, I just hope it doesn't end up on youtube

We are writing that because that's what the rule states. You might want to read it, ACE. 10-3-6h and 10-4-1h

You have much to learn, grasshopper.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

We are writing that because that's what the rule states. You might want to read it, ACE. 10-3-6h and 10-4-1h

You have much to learn, grasshopper.

10-3-6 and 10-4-1 regards technical fouls or ejections. We're talking about a bloody shirt or improper equipment that would require a player to change, i.e. undershirt is of a wrong color.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by representing

10-3-6 and 10-4-1 regards technical fouls or ejections. We're talking about a bloody shirt or improper equipment that would require a player to change, i.e. undershirt is of a wrong color.

Yeah? That's what the penalty is for changing in the visual confines of the playing area... a technical foul. Did you read them?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Yeah? That's what the penalty is for changing in the visual confines of the playing area... a technical foul. Did you read them?

Nope, he obviously didn't bother to read the citations. He's a young ACE.

He might be teachable, but the jury is still out.

[representing]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Yeah? That's what the penalty is for changing in the visual confines of the playing area... a technical foul. Did you read them?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nope, he obviously didn't bother to read the citations. He's a young ACE.

He might be teachable, but the jury is still out.

The topic I was talking about was a little OT from the OP.

We were talking about whether or not the player HAS to go to the locker room to remove and replace a bloodied uniform piece or to remove an illegal equipment such as wrong-colored undergarment.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

The topic I was talking about was a little OT from the OP.

We were talking about whether or not the player HAS to go to the locker room to remove and replace a bloodied uniform piece or to remove an illegal equipment such as wrong-colored undergarment.

And the answer is no. The individual merely must leave "the visual confines of the playing area" because that is exactly how it is written in the rule citations which I provided for you. We are talking about same thing, you just aren't listening.