Wild Throw-in vs. Pressure

[CMHCoachNRef]

Rather strange situation happened in a game last year. We were back at the same gym on Friday night and I brought up the play. Three officials, three different views of the same play. Ask a different crew on Saturday and got similar results.

Here is the situation: Team A scores a basket with 0:05 seconds left in the first half. Team A is running a Diamond Fullcourt press. A5 is aggressively defending along the endline. B1 is preparing to inbound the ball. This particular high school gym has very little room beyond the end line (about 3 feet between the end line and a brick wall (there is no restraining line). B1 decides to run the end line. B1 stops, sees a teammate near the division line. B1 attempts to make a baseball pass. As he reaches back to throw the pass, his hand/the ball contacts the wall. The ball goes directly into the hands of A5 who puts the ball into the basket. What, if anything, do you have?

Basket, throw-in violation, reset/redo due to the proximity of the wall???

[Jurassic Referee]

2 points if his hand hit the wall. Throw-in violation if the ball hit the wall last.

Team A did nuthin' wrong.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2 points if his hand hit the wall. Throw-in violation if the ball hit the wall last.

Team A did nuthin' wrong.

It's only a violation if the ball hit the wall and then came onto the court, which is what I think you're saying.

I'd rule the same as you.

[Camron Rust]

It sounds like the ball was still in his hands when it touched the wall...when he pulled it back getting ready to throw it. If so, no violation.

The wall is OOB just like the floor. It wouldn't be a violation if he touched the ball to the floor while it was in his hands....only if a bounce pass hit the floor OOB before going inbounds....the wall would basically be the same.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It sounds like the ball was still in his hands when it touched the wall...when he pulled it back getting ready to throw it. If so, no violation.

The wall is OOB just like the floor. It wouldn't be a violation if he touched the ball to the floor while it was in his hands....only if a bounce pass hit the floor OOB before going inbounds....the wall would basically be the same.

Camron,
So you are saying that if the ball is in the inbounder's (B1's) hand, when the ball makes contact with the wall, it would not be a violation (similar to the floor)?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Camron,
So you are saying that if the ball is in the inbounder's (B1's) hand, when the ball makes contact with the wall, it would not be a violation (similar to the floor)?

I had a play that ended up at the NFHS a few years ago.

Made basket. Team A runs a play -- A1 passes to A2 and the ball glances off the wall on the way to A2. A2 catches the ball, passes to A3, who is fouled.

In a split second, I ruled it was legal since the ball didn't go on the court. The home coach was, shall I say, unhappy and I submitted the play to the state office who passed it right to the NFHS. They agreed it was legal, but left open the chance they'd change their minds in future years. Since I've seen no plays addressing this, I'd still go with this interpretation.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I had a play that ended up at the NFHS a few years ago.

Made basket. Team A runs a play -- A1 passes to A2 and the ball glances off the wall on the way to A2. A2 catches the ball, passes to A3, who is fouled.

In a split second, I ruled it was legal since the ball didn't go on the court. The home coach was, shall I say, unhappy and I submitted the play to the state office who passed it right to the NFHS. They agreed it was legal, but left open the chance they'd change their minds in future years. Since I've seen no plays addressing this, I'd still go with this interpretation.

9.2.2 Situation A

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tjones1

9.2.2 Situation A

9.2.2 SITUATION A: Thrower A1: (a) causes the ball to carom from the wall
behind him/her, or from the floor out of bounds and then into the court; (b) caroms
the ball from the back of the backboard to a player in the court; or (c) throws
the ball against the side or the front face of the backboard, after which it rebounds
into the hands of A2. RULING: Violation in (a) and (b), since the throw touched
an object out of bounds. The throw-in in (c) is legal. The side and front face of
the backboard are inbounds and, in this specific situation, are treated the same
as the floor inbounds.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tjones1

9.2.2 Situation A

Not quite. The carom in my game was off the wall to another player out of bounds on a made goal. It's a point not covered. I asked about 20 top officials and it was a 50-50 split in my responses.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Not quite. The carom in my game was off the wall to another player out of bounds on a made goal. It's a point not covered. I asked about 20 top officials and it was a 50-50 split in my responses.

Ok, my fault. I see what you are saying now.

7-5-7a
Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in or he/she may pass the ball along the endline to a teammate(s) outside the boundary.

I assume this is what some are basing their argument on?

However,

9.2.2 SITUATION A: Thrower A1: (a) causes the ball to carom from the wall
behind him/her, or from the floor out of bounds and then into the court; (b) caroms the ball from the back of the backboard to a player in the court; or (c) throws the ball against the side or the front face of the backboard, after which it rebounds into the hands of A2. RULING: Violation in (a) and (b), since the throw touched an object out of bounds. The throw-in in (c) is legal. The side and front face of the backboard are inbounds and, in this specific situation, are treated the same as the floor inbounds.

I'd say it's a violation based on it touching an object other than a player out of bounds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I'd say it's a violation based on it touching an object other than a player out of bounds.

On a "run the endline" throwin, can A1 throw a bounce pass to A2, both whom are out of bounds? Is the ball touching the floor out of bounds on such a bounce pass (not a dribble, which is legal on all throwins) the same as the ball touching a wall on such a pass out of bounds?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

On a "run the endline" throwin, can A1 throw a bounce pass to A2, both whom are out of bounds? Is the ball touching the floor out of bounds on such a bounce pass (not a dribble, which is legal on all throwins) the same as the ball touching a wall on such a pass out of bounds?

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

They're both out of bounds. As long as the ball's always out of bounds until the actual throw-in and the defense doesn't commit a 5-second violation, who cares what it hits?

If the ball goes from the wall to the court, it's a violation. No argument there.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

Agreed, but the restriction on throwin only applies to the throwin pass. If it is not a throwin pass, touching OOB along the endline is not relevant. There is no part of the throwin rule that says the ball can't touch OOB if it is to another teammate who is also OOB along the endline....it is already OOB and touching something that is OOB doesn't change anything.

However, once released on the throwin pass, it is prohibited from touching anything OOB before going inbounds.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

They're both out of bounds. As long as the ball's always out of bounds until the actual throw-in and the defense doesn't commit a 5-second violation, who cares what it hits?

If the ball goes from the wall to the court, it's a violation. No argument there.

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?