Wild Throw-in vs. Pressure

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tjones1

9.2.2 Situation A

Not quite. The carom in my game was off the wall to another player out of bounds on a made goal. It's a point not covered. I asked about 20 top officials and it was a 50-50 split in my responses.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Not quite. The carom in my game was off the wall to another player out of bounds on a made goal. It's a point not covered. I asked about 20 top officials and it was a 50-50 split in my responses.

Ok, my fault. I see what you are saying now.

7-5-7a
Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in or he/she may pass the ball along the endline to a teammate(s) outside the boundary.

I assume this is what some are basing their argument on?

However,

9.2.2 SITUATION A: Thrower A1: (a) causes the ball to carom from the wall
behind him/her, or from the floor out of bounds and then into the court; (b) caroms the ball from the back of the backboard to a player in the court; or (c) throws the ball against the side or the front face of the backboard, after which it rebounds into the hands of A2. RULING: Violation in (a) and (b), since the throw touched an object out of bounds. The throw-in in (c) is legal. The side and front face of the backboard are inbounds and, in this specific situation, are treated the same as the floor inbounds.

I'd say it's a violation based on it touching an object other than a player out of bounds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I'd say it's a violation based on it touching an object other than a player out of bounds.

On a "run the endline" throwin, can A1 throw a bounce pass to A2, both whom are out of bounds? Is the ball touching the floor out of bounds on such a bounce pass (not a dribble, which is legal on all throwins) the same as the ball touching a wall on such a pass out of bounds?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

On a "run the endline" throwin, can A1 throw a bounce pass to A2, both whom are out of bounds? Is the ball touching the floor out of bounds on such a bounce pass (not a dribble, which is legal on all throwins) the same as the ball touching a wall on such a pass out of bounds?

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

They're both out of bounds. As long as the ball's always out of bounds until the actual throw-in and the defense doesn't commit a 5-second violation, who cares what it hits?

If the ball goes from the wall to the court, it's a violation. No argument there.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

They're both out of bounds. As long as the ball's always out of bounds until the actual throw-in and the defense doesn't commit a 5-second violation, who cares what it hits?

If the ball goes from the wall to the court, it's a violation. No argument there.

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

[BillyMac]

Does the NFHS have a donut hole in this specific situation? Is there no specific rule or casebook situation to cover a "run the endline" throwin where A1 throws a bounce pass to A2, where A1, A2, and the place where the bounce pass hits (the wall) are all out of bounds?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

Because it's illegal for him to bounce the ball on the floor on the inbounds area.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

Because it was written for more likely situations. How many of us have actually seen Rich's play?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

Agreed, but the restriction on throwin only applies to the throwin pass. If it is not a throwin pass, touching OOB along the endline is not relevant. There is no part of the throwin rule that says the ball can't touch OOB if it is to another teammate who is also OOB along the endline....it is already OOB and touching something that is OOB doesn't change anything.

However, once released on the throwin pass, it is prohibited from touching anything OOB before going inbounds.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

And 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the passes along the end-line do not involve the wall. The ruels / cases can't cover every contingency (what if it was a stage? A photographer? A speaker? ....)

Since it's just a pass to a team-mate, what possible advantage could the offense gain by making the pass more difficult? So, allow it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the passes along the end-line do not involve the wall. The ruels / cases can't cover every contingency (what if it was a stage? A photographer? A speaker? ....)

Since it's just a pass to a team-mate, what possible advantage could the offense gain by making the pass more difficult? So, allow it.

It seems so obvious now, but believe me -- when it happened it didn't seem that obvious to the "offended" coach or half the officials I relayed the story to.

You're right -- it doesn't happen often mainly because so few teams run a play like this. We have lot of gyms with tight spaces around here -- I seem to end up in every one of them. Some big schools, some small.

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It seems so obvious now, but believe me -- when it happened it didn't seem that obvious to the "offended" coach or half the officials I relayed the story to.

You're right -- it doesn't happen often mainly because so few teams run a play like this. We have lot of gyms with tight spaces around here -- I seem to end up in every one of them. Some big schools, some small.

If there is no restraining line marked, we can still impose one on the defense right? Seems like doing this before giving the ball to the thrower might help somewhat in these situations.