T for 2

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I made it this far in the season with just one T, but I had two yesterday in about 5 seconds. Men's rec (duh). Guy griping a little bit here and there most of the game, then with about 3 minutes left he loses his cool on a no-call and cries about it as we go down to the other end, so I pin him. As I report he walks by me and quietly says "kick me out too" so I did!

[Rich]

The home coach couldn't believe I called a technical for the kid pulling his jersey over his head. He asked, "what else did he do?" I simply said, "that's all it took."

This was the same guy who told me I was out of position about 30 seconds into the game. 2-person. I'm lead opposite. Ball goes out tableside sideline -- I didn't even know it went out until I heard this whistle, BTW -- I was watching the post-play dance underneath. Bump and run. As I was coming in front of his bench as the new trail, the coach said I should've been in position to help my partner out there. It was so absurd I actually laughed.

He then accused me of being out of position at a critical juncture late. Rebound kicked out wide and his player took it with his back to the bucket (about 82 feet away). He simply turned to dribble up the floor and a defender was right there and he bumped into the guy and fell to the floor. I called a travel. The defender had position and there was no foul to be called, really. He told me I missed the bump and was out of position. Given the comment in the first minute, I'm thinking he thinks "in position" means standing in his coaching box.

It was a long day. We finished the 2:30PM game about 4:15 and I had to get on the road to meet our third at 5PM and drive about an hour to our 7:15PM game, which was actually more fun to work than the afternoon game (it was 3-person and wasn't frantic, out-of-control action the whole game). The first beer tasted good, as did the burger. Pulled into the house about 12:30AM.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The home coach couldn't believe I called a technical for the kid pulling his jersey over his head. He asked, "what else did he do?" I simply said, "that's all it took."

Yes, that is all it takes

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This was the same guy who told me I was out of position about 30 seconds into the game. 2-person. I'm lead opposite. Ball goes out tableside sideline -- I didn't even know it went out until I heard this whistle, BTW -- I was watching the post-play dance underneath. Bump and run. As I was coming in front of his bench as the new trail, the coach said I should've been in position to help my partner out there. It was so absurd I actually laughed.

He then accused me of being out of position at a critical juncture late. Rebound kicked out wide and his player took it with his back to the bucket (about 82 feet away). He simply turned to dribble up the floor and a defender was right there and he bumped into the guy and fell to the floor. I called a travel. The defender had position and there was no foul to be called, really. He told me I missed the bump and was out of position. Given the comment in the first minute, I'm thinking he thinks "in position" means standing in his coaching box.

The second time the coach mention anything about positioning, I always mention that he is here to coach his kids and if he is watching my positioning his team is not obviously being coached. That usually solves the problem

-Josh

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by jdmara

The second time the coach mention anything about positioning, I always mention that he is here to coach his kids and if he is watching my positioning his team is not obviously being coached. That usually solves the problem

I agree with jdmara. I think chirping about positioning needs to be cut off ASAP. I will usually address something related specifically related to position (i.e. "You've got to get in position to see that!") the first time. Something more indirect (i.e. "You called that and your partner was standing right in front of it and didn't have anything?!) might be ignored the first time, but certainly needs to be addressed if it's a repeated thing.

Like jdmara said, usually a quick word like "I'm not going to tell you how to coach, Coach, so let me take care of the officiating" will take care of things.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

I agree with jdmara. I think chirping about positioning needs to be cut off ASAP. I will usually address something related specifically related to position (i.e. "You've got to get in position to see that!") the first time. Something more indirect (i.e. "You called that and your partner was standing right in front of it and didn't have anything?!) might be ignored the first time, but certainly needs to be addressed if it's a repeated thing.

Like jdmara said, usually a quick word like "I'm not going to tell you how to coach, Coach, so let me take care of the officiating" will take care of things.

Eh, it was first minute and last minute. The first one rolled off the books by then. It wasn't the time or place. By then we were into free throw land and I was trying to keep things moving.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

I agree with jdmara. I think chirping about positioning needs to be cut off ASAP. I will usually address something related specifically related to position (i.e. "You've got to get in position to see that!") the first time. Something more indirect (i.e. "You called that and your partner was standing right in front of it and didn't have anything?!) might be ignored the first time, but certainly needs to be addressed if it's a repeated thing.

Like jdmara said, usually a quick word like "I'm not going to tell you how to coach, Coach, so let me take care of the officiating" will take care of things.

I don't care for that comeback as it invites another comeback "good,I've been waiting for you to officiate" or "please do", something along those lines.

Secondly, it's a tired, cliched response IMO, one that coaches have heard numerous times before and have an arsenal of retorts that can only end badly.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I don't care for that comeback as it invites another comeback "good,I've been waiting for you to officiate" or "please do", something along those lines.

Secondly, it's a tired, cliched response IMO, one that coaches have heard numerous times before and have an arsenal of retorts that can only end badly.

My standard response to something like the above is "Coach, we're not going to have a discussion about this" and leave it at that. There's no wiggle room in there.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I don't care for that comeback as it invites another comeback "good,I've been waiting for you to officiate" or "please do", something along those lines.

Secondly, it's a tired, cliched response IMO, one that coaches have heard numerous times before and have an arsenal of retorts that can only end badly.

Completely agreed. Early in the my career I tried the "you coach, I'll officiate" type of line and it never worked well. It certainly didn't make the coach/official relationship better, and often made it worse.

Something along the lines of "We're not going to have that conversation tonight, coach. Do you have a question about the play?" seems to work pretty well for me. I know it invites more conversation where some would prefer to just end it, but I like to show the coach I'm willing to communicate in the appropriate way.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Completely agreed. Early in the my career I tried the "you coach, I'll officiate" type of line and it never worked well. It certainly didn't make the coach/official relationship better, and often made it worse.

Something along the lines of "We're not going to have that conversation tonight, coach. Do you have a question about the play?" seems to work pretty well for me. I know it invites more conversation where some would prefer to just end it, but I like to show the coach I'm willing to communicate in the appropriate way.

Agree to a point. I have no problem answering questions, and if a coach asks a legitimate question I will answer it, but I'm not going to elicit one from him. To do so only invites a response that might escalate the situation. Suppose in response, he rephrases his statement and asks "When are you going to start calling it both ways?" Then what?

Rather than a verbal reply to an inappropriate comment, if I feel it can't be ignored I'll simply give him the stop sign. They all know what that means, and if they choose to ignore it they do so at their own peril.

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I always mention that he is here to coach his kids and if he is watching my positioning his team is not obviously being coached. That usually solves the problem

-Josh

I would not say the second part of this statement to a coach. When you make a comment like that, you are questioning they way he does his job just like he is questioning how you are doing your job. As officials, we should not stoop to their level. The first part of the statement, "you are are to coach your team, not us." is enough. Telling the coach that he/she is not coaching their team is borderline baiting.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

"You are are to coach your team, not us."

Yes, by itself, I like this line.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

I would not say the second part of this statement to a coach. When you make a comment like that, you are questioning they way he does his job just like he is questioning how you are doing your job. As officials, we should not stoop to their level. The first part of the statement, "you are are to coach your team, not us." is enough. Telling the coach that he/she is not coaching their team is borderline baiting.

Hey man, good to see you back on the board. Still teaching in my old stomping grounds?

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Hey man, good to see you back on the board. Still teaching in my old stomping grounds?

Yup, still around. Had a crazy baseball season followed by making the Dome in football season so I haven't been around here much. Basketball season is going well. My schedule is about 50/50 between high school and college women. Shoot me an email and we'll catch up sometime.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The home coach couldn't believe I called a technical for the kid pulling his jersey over his head. He asked, "what else did he do?" I simply said, "that's all it took."

This was the same guy who told me I was out of position about 30 seconds into the game. 2-person. I'm lead opposite. Ball goes out tableside sideline -- I didn't even know it went out until I heard this whistle, BTW -- I was watching the post-play dance underneath. Bump and run. As I was coming in front of his bench as the new trail, the coach said I should've been in position to help my partner out there. It was so absurd I actually laughed.

He then accused me of being out of position at a critical juncture late. Rebound kicked out wide and his player took it with his back to the bucket (about 82 feet away). He simply turned to dribble up the floor and a defender was right there and he bumped into the guy and fell to the floor. I called a travel. The defender had position and there was no foul to be called, really. He told me I missed the bump and was out of position. Given the comment in the first minute, I'm thinking he thinks "in position" means standing in his coaching box.

It was a long day. We finished the 2:30PM game about 4:15 and I had to get on the road to meet our third at 5PM and drive about an hour to our 7:15PM game, which was actually more fun to work than the afternoon game (it was 3-person and wasn't frantic, out-of-control action the whole game). The first beer tasted good, as did the burger. Pulled into the house about 12:30AM.

This is also an automatic whack.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

This is also an automatic whack.

The comment from the coach? I didn't even acknowledge him. He proved his knowledge about officiating in the first minute of the game. At least he was quiet while being stupid about it.