gps-10 - Page 3

Dan_ref · #31 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 02:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Self

What rule book is this in, I haven't seen it. If B1 steps infront of A1 and illegally impedes him by saying boo and their is no contact, you have a block?

You can impede someone all night long as long as their is no contact. Ball to body is not contact.....

I dont know how much clearer I can be. If B1 has not
established legal guarding position and/or moves into and
causes contact with a driving A1 then B1 is responsible for
this illegal contact. In this case I have a foul on B1.
If B1 is legal then in this play I have a travel when A1
comes down with the ball. This is what I've been saying all thread.

I can't make it much simpler than that, if you want to get
into a p1ssing contest over this then you'll have to do it by yourself.

Hawks Coach · #32 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 02:54pm

Sorry to weigh in so late - just saw this today. I got a travel on this one. That brief sandwich isn't a held ball, and there is no illegal contact. Just a case of A leaving his feet, running out of space to operate, and coming back down again.

I will also say that my immediate reaction was held ball. Then I reflected on the case where A can jump, B can touch ball, and A come back down for a travel and overruled myself! So I can easily see you calling it a held ball in a game situation. And obviously, some would agree with that call anyway.

Danvrapp · #33 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 03:05pm

Let's try and look at it this way:

A1 is standing still, B1 closely guarding, and A1 (while standing) pushes the ball forward into B1, who may or may not be moving towards A1. Is this a foul on B1 because s/he touched the ball? How 'bout if A1 repeats the above, but B1, being much much bigger and stronger, doens't move but instead A1 goes backwards. Is this a fould on B1? Do your answers change if A1 and/or B1 are in the air?

I think those of us chanting travel (or jump ball for that matter - anything but a foul on B1) are wondering how there can be a foul on B1 when all s/he has touched was the ball?

RecRef · #34 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Sorry to weigh in so late - just saw this today. I got a travel on this one. That brief sandwich isn't a held ball, and there is no illegal contact. Just a case of A leaving his feet, running out of space to operate, and coming back down again.

Coach, as Dan_ref said above, the key to all of this is that A1 is airborne. If B1 moves into A1 or into A1 landing spot after he is in the air it can not be anything but a block.

Self · #35 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 03:15pm

Actually if you read your posts I think you will find your not as clear as you think you are. Just a matter of opinion though.

I read a question for what is written and don't read more than the question. Many of your posts were assuming more than what was just asked.

To me it is simple: Just answer the question given and don't read into it.....

Self · #36 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 03:17pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RecRef

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Coach, as Dan_ref said above, the key to all of this is that A1 is airborne. If B1 moves into A1 or into A1 landing spot after he is in the air it can not be anything but a block.

Rec Ref, Where are you getting this. Again two players jump the ONLY CONTACT IS BALL TO BODY. You are calling a foul. Am I reading this correctly?

Hawks Coach · #37 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 03:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RecRef

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Sorry to weigh in so late - just saw this today. I got a travel on this one. That brief sandwich isn't a held ball, and there is no illegal contact. Just a case of A leaving his feet, running out of space to operate, and coming back down again.

Coach, as Dan_ref said above, the key to all of this is that A1 is airborne. If B1 moves into A1 or into A1 landing spot after he is in the air it can not be anything but a block.

If it is ball to body rather than body to body, or at least body to body is minimal at best (as crew states in a follow-up post), there is no illegal contact, therefore no foul. I am not replying to all of the hypotheticals about illegal contact, just to crew's case as he states it.

I understand the airborne shooter principle - but this only applies if there is illegal contact. A does not have a landing spot until he lands. Since he didn't land on B, B wasn't in A's landing spot. Had A tucked the ball and crashed into B, he may have drawn a foul. But A let the ball hit B then lost control of body in air. There is no foul here, just a choice between a held ball and a travel. And I go with travel for the reasons I cited.

ChuckElias · #38 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 03:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
A does not have a landing spot until he lands. Since he didn't land on B, B wasn't in A's landing spot.

Come on, Coach. You don't really expect us to go with you on that one, do you?

A does not have to land on B in order to be denied his "landing spot". If a defender jumps into your point guard's airborne path as he's shooting a lay-up and they collide, your point guard going one way and the defender going another, would you not expect a foul to be called? I expect you might.

Chuck

Jurassic Referee · #39 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 04:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by braboa
Hi guys. I'm a rookie here, so take it easy on me.

When I first read this I thought if I saw this play full speed I'm thinking I would have let it go as if the offensive player were stripped of the ball. There's virtually no contact, so there is no foul. You can't rule it a block and there is no tie up situation. I have a hard time calling traveling when both players were in contact with the ball (it was sandwiched between them). You could argue it was dislodged. I think a "let the kids play" would be in order based on the premise that two guys were hustling for the ball.

As crew posted above,A1 did not release the ball.He wasn't stripped and the ball wasn't dislodged.A1 went up in the air with player control of the ball,and when he landed he still had player control of the ball(and never lost player control of the ball).With no body contact=no foul,the only calls you could make are travelling or a jump ball-and you gotta call one of them.A no-call isn't really an option in this case.
Btw,welcome to the board.

Self · #40 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 04:17pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
If a defender jumps into your point guard's airborne path as he's shooting a lay-up and they collide, your point guard going one way and the defender going another, would you not expect a foul to be called? I expect you might. Chuck

Only if ther is PLAYER contact. Coach is referring to player and ball contact. That is NOT a foul. Traveling or possibly a held ball. BUY, not a foul.

Hawks Coach · #41 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 04:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
A does not have a landing spot until he lands. Since he didn't land on B, B wasn't in A's landing spot.

Come on, Coach. You don't really expect us to go with you on that one, do you? A does not have to land on B in order to be denied his "landing spot". If a defender jumps into your point guard's airborne path as he's shooting a lay-up and they collide, your point guard going one way and the defender going another, would you not expect a foul to be called? I expect you might.

Chuck

Chuck
Big IF in that sentence. I would agree, if the case you cited occurred. Clearly contact, clearly a foul, regardless of whether or not you call an airborne A colliding with B on the way down "A landing on B." I was merely responding to RECREF's way of saying it - and landing on, colliding with, making contact (beyond incidental) with B all have the same result when B moves into A's path after A leaves feet - Block on B.

However, A did not collide with B in crew's case, just the ball in A's hands. No foul in my book, regardless of whether or not A might have landed where B was if the ball hadn't contacted B. That is all I was saying.

AK ref SE · #42 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 19, 2002, 04:19pm

I would be great if we could have some streamed in videos....like YOU MAKE THE CALL.....then there is no assuming or reading into......because I assume when you try to picture what actually happened....just like opinions we all picture it a little different.
I hope basketball season gets here soon!!!

AK ref SE

[Edited by AK ref SE on Aug 19th, 2002 at 04:21 PM]