is this traveling?

[idbtc]

player A dribbles the ball. Play A stops dribbling. His teammate, Player B, comes next to him. Player A holds the ball and player B also holds the ball. Both players do not let go the ball. Player A takes the ball back solely (essentially fakes a handoff pass) and starts dribbling again.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by idbtc

player A dribbles the ball. Play A stops dribbling. His teammate, Player B, comes next to him. Player A holds the ball and player B also holds the ball. Both players do not let go the ball. Player A takes the ball back solely (essentially fakes a handoff pass) and starts dribbling again.

No, it's not a travel - it's an illegal dribble per 9-5 as from your description player never lost or gave up player control of the ball.

[RookieDude]

...did player A ever lose possesion?

[Back In The Saddle]

Welcome to the forum idbtc. I would add to the answers above that if either *A1 or A2 moves beyond the prescribed limits of the traveling rule while they both have (joint) possession of the ball, that player has traveled.

* Around these parts the two teams are normally designated A and B, players of those teams are commonly designated by sequential numbers, thus A1 and A2 rather than A and B. Again, welcome to the forum.

[idbtc]

thanks for the welcome msg and thanks for the replies.

A1 and A2 did not travel while both held the ball together (stood still). A1 never let go of the ball while both him and A2 had the ball together. A1 took sole possession again and start his dribble again. I thought it was a good play (no violation) since A2 clearly had joint possession of the ball even though they are teammates, hence couldn't one argue that possession changed hands and back to A1...hence giving A1 the right to dribble the ball again? I mean, couldn't one argue that the ball was instantly handed off and then back to A1 even though he never let go of the ball??

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by idbtc

thanks for the welcome msg and thanks for the replies.

A1 and A2 did not travel while both held the ball together (stood still). A1 never let go of the ball while both him and A2 had the ball together. A1 took sole possession again and start his dribble again. I thought it was a good play (no violation) since A2 clearly had joint possession of the ball even though they are teammates, hence couldn't one argue that possession changed hands and back to A1...hence giving A1 the right to dribble the ball again? I mean, couldn't one argue that the ball was instantly handed off and then back to A1 even though he never let go of the ball??

One could argue that, but the rules (at least NCAA rules) say otherwise:

Rule 9-7. Double Dribble
Art. 1. A player shall not dribble a second time after the player’s first dribble has ended, unless the player subsequently loses control because of:
a. A try for field goal.
b. A bat by an opponent.
c. A pass or fumble that has then touched or been touched by another player.

In your scenario, A1 never loses control of the ball. Hence, double dribble.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by idbtc

I mean, couldn't one argue that the ball was instantly handed off and then back to A1 even though he never let go of the ball??

One could make such an argument, but one would be incorrect according to the rules.

RULE 9, SECTION 5 ILLEGAL DRIBBLE
A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended,
unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 . . . A try for field goal.
ART. 2 . . . A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 . . . A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Those are the only actions which permit a second dribble.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

One could make such an argument, but one would be incorrect according to the rules....

Beatcha 2-it!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Lotto

Beatcha 2-it!

Dang you, Lotto.

(At least I cited the NFHS rule.)

[idbtc]

thanks for all the clarifications and I was wrong to say it is a good play. I'm surprised that the official rules are such that it isn't a good play. I guess one can let go just a bit (lose control) then take the ball back and that would definitely be okay to restart the dribble. That'll work next time.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by idbtc

thanks for all the clarifications and I was wrong to say it is a good play. I'm surprised that the official rules are such that it isn't a good play. I guess one can let go just a bit (lose control) then take the ball back and that would definitely be okay to restart the dribble. That'll work next time.

I don't see the need to be so clever or sly about the whole affair, using fake hand offs, or nearly fake hand offs. If A1 wants to dribble again, he should simply clearly pass the ball to A2 who then clearly passes it back. It can't take that much longer to do and may save you an unpleasant surprise when some hapless official gets screened from seeing the little hand off/hand back thing, or simply has a different judgment on whether control was relinquished, etc.

Just my $0.02

[idbtc]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I don't see the need to be so clever or sly about the whole affair, using fake hand offs, or nearly fake hand offs. If A1 wants to dribble again, he should simply clearly pass the ball to A2 who then clearly passes it back. It can't take that much longer to do and may save you an unpleasant surprise when some hapless official gets screened from seeing the little hand off/hand back thing, or simply has a different judgment on whether control was relinquished, etc.

Just my $0.02

you are right. It could cause confusion and leave to chance an incorrect call even if a pass was deftly made.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Dang you, Lotto.

(At least I cited the NFHS rule.)

Yep! ....same one I referenced back in post #2....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Yep! ....same one I referenced back in post #2....

That does not count, you did not quote the entire rule (at least by his standards).

Peace