Basket Interfernce / Goaltending

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Gargil

The ball was above the cylindar coming down to the rim and B2 was coming across the lane and it looked like he got caught in the net and was trying to avoid contact with A1 and B1 who were falling to the ground after the foul on the layup/short jump shot.

Okay, now that I've had my caffeine:
"Above the cylinder," to me, implies it was not on the basket. It was above it. BI is not an option here with the net.

From your first post, I'm not sure if the ball hit the rim before the rim returned to it's original position. If the rim was just shaking, which is how you worded it, then I'm assuming the rim never really left it's original position.

No BI.

If the player was trying to protect himself by grabbing the net, you shouldn't call the T either.

It's nothing but the original shooting foul, then.

[Gargil]

I was not working the V game, I was spectating. I saw the ball in the imaginary cylindar and non intentional BI. Count the basket and shoot one freethrow.
The Officials had a long conference and decided no shot, foul on the floor. (I thought was a bad call)
I was asking the question to see if I would have administered what I saw correctly. The grabbing of the net was a judgement call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I thnk he now has 4 different situations:

1) Ball is either on the basket or in the imaginary cylinder when the net pulling occurs

2) Grabs the net while blocking the shot or pulls on it to avoid players.

No wonder he can't get an answer to his question -- he doesn't know what the question is.

(And, I don't mean that as demeaning to the OP. It's just an example of why precision is important -- sometimes even the difference between "baseline" and "endline" might matter. And, it's an example of how mistaken rulings get passed around.)

Agree. Good point made for everybody about being very specific if you want a correct answer to your question.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gargil

I saw the ball in the imaginary cylindar and non intentional BI. Count the basket and shoot one freethrow.
The Officials had a long conference and decided no shot, foul on the floor. (I thought was a bad call)
I was asking the question to see if I would have administered what I saw correctly. The grabbing of the net was a judgement call.

It is not BI to grab the ring/net when the ball is in the cylinder. And it is not a technical foul to grasp the ring/net if you're doing so to avoid an injury. And intent NEVER is a factor in determining whether BI or goaltending should be called. And it's the calling official's judgment ONLY that decides whether a player was fouled before or in the act of shooting.

All of that adds up to us really not knowing what the exact situation was.

Little advice.....don't label anything as being a "bad call" when you don't have any idea what the call actually was.

[AKOFL]

I have not found where is says to T a player for hanging on the net. The T for hanging on the rim I have found. Do we reason this to be the same thing. The net is treated the same as the rim as far as hanging on goes?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

The T for hanging on the rim I have found.

Where did you find the T for "hanging on the RIM?"

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It is not BI to grab the ring/net when the ball is in the cylinder.

Except for one possible piece that no one has mentioned (or I overlooked it)....

If the basket is grabbed (pulled down) such that the rim has not returned to its normal position when the ball contacts the rim, it is also BI...even if the grab occurs with the ball in the cylinder.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Except for one possible piece that no one has mentioned (or I overlooked it)....

If the basket is grabbed (pulled down) such that the rim has not returned to its normal position when the ball contacts the rim, it is also BI...even if the grab occurs with the ball in the cylinder.

Got it.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

From your first post, I'm not sure if the ball hit the rim before the rim returned to it's original position. If the rim was just shaking, which is how you worded it, then I'm assuming the rim never really left it's original position.

No BI.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Where did you find the T for "hanging on the RIM?"

That was the wording in the rules by topic. It uses the term basket in the rule book so I guess that would include the ring and net. Correct?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

That was the wording in the rules by topic. It uses the term basket in the rule book so I guess that would include the ring and net. Correct?

Just one reason why I don't care for Rules By Topic (or the previously often0-used "Simplified and Illustrated").

"Basket" is defined in 1-10.

[AKOFL]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Just one reason why I don't care for Rules By Topic (or the previously often0-used "Simplified and Illustrated").

"Basket" is defined in 1-10.

Yep. just looked at it. Thnks BOB

[BillyMac]

A player cannot touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. A player cannot touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. These are examples of basket interference. It is legal to touch the ring or the net if the ball is above the ring and not touching the ring, even if the ball is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is legal to hang on the ring if a player is avoiding an injury to himself or herself or another player.

[Back In The Saddle]

I'm wondering about the T brought up earlier in the discussion. I see two rules that could come in to play here:

"Grasp either basket during the time of the officials’ jurisdiction, dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item applies to all team members.
EXCEPTION: A player may grasp the basket to prevent injury." (NFHS 10-3-3)

and

"Illegally contact the backboard/ring by: Intentionally slapping or striking the backboard or causing the ring to vibrate while a try or tap is in flight or is touching the backboard or is in the basket or in the cylinder above the basket." (NFHS 10-3-4)

In the first, the mere act of grasping the net, which I envision as an active and deliberate act (quite different that simply getting caught or tangled in the net while attempting to block a shot), clearly warrants a T.

In the second, it matters how you parse the text. If the qualifier "intentionally" applies to "slapping or striking the backboard or causing the ring to vibrate" you get a different result than if it only applies to "slapping or striking the backboard". Unintentionally getting caught in the net, but in doing so causing the ring to vibrate would be a T if "intentionally" only applies to "slapping or striking the backboard".

I'm of the opinion that "intentionally" qualifies the entire phrase "slapping or striking the backboard or causing the ring to vibrate". Does anybody disagree?