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-   -   OT: Contacting an official (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56109-ot-contacting-official.html)

Berkut Sun Dec 27, 2009 09:12pm

Watching the replay, this is a lot more straightforward than I though. Looked to me like he intentionally slapped his hand. No brainer, on both their parts.

Adam Sun Dec 27, 2009 09:15pm

My wife heard me cheer when they tossed him, and asked what happened.

Me: "They just ejected one of the Broncos."

Wife: :confused: "Why are you happy?"

Me: Because he got stupid and deserved it.

Raymond Sun Dec 27, 2009 09:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins (Post 646254)
Video of Brandon Stokley Ref Contact and Ejection

Not sure honestly -- I don't know what he said and that alone could've been grounds for dismissal... but the contacting the official here seems a little finger to finger to me... I really don't know.

I'll repeat my earlier reply for you:

Just like I tell my kids, don't throw rocks in the neighborhood and then say it's an accident when you break a window.

representing Sun Dec 27, 2009 09:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkut (Post 646246)
Kind of has to be, doesn't it? Last thing we need is any kind of debate about whether someone "accidentally" hit an official - that just raises the possibility of getting away with taking a shot if you can pretend it was an "accident".

After watching the video, I'd have to agree. Although not intentionally hitting the official, any contact against an official in any sport (except coaches in baseball apparently) should be zero tolerance. I'm sure some words he said could have influenced the ejection as well.

And before anyone says anything, I know some of you may reference back to my post last week about a player making contact with me and I didn't eject him. That was my fault and I don't need a reminder. :o

Adam Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by representing (Post 646280)
After watching the video, I'd have to agree. Although not intentionally hitting the official, any contact against an official in any sport (except coaches in baseball apparently) should be zero tolerance. I'm sure some words he said could have influenced the ejection as well.

And before anyone says anything, I know some of you may reference back to my post last week about a player making contact with me and I didn't eject him. That was my fault and I don't need a reminder. :o

I will say there's a difference between contacting an official to show him what you think happened (a T, and perhaps a flagrant) and the OP, which was hitting an official in anger/frustration.

mbyron Mon Dec 28, 2009 08:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by representing (Post 646280)
Although not intentionally hitting the official, any contact against an official in any sport (except coaches in baseball apparently) should be zero tolerance.

Disagree. Football umpires get knocked down all the time.

A helpful distinction (though not exhaustive) would be live-ball vs. dead-ball contact.

Jurassic Referee Mon Dec 28, 2009 08:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 646358)
Disagree. Football umpires get knocked down all the time.

A helpful distinction (though not exhaustive) would be live-ball vs. dead-ball contact.

Naw, that distinction doesn't really help either imo. The distinction in any sport at any time is whether the contact was incidental/accidental or deliberate and unsporting.

constable Mon Dec 28, 2009 09:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 646358)
Disagree. Football umpires get knocked down all the time.

A helpful distinction (though not exhaustive) would be live-ball vs. dead-ball contact.

I got bumped into in the FRA the other night by a kid who was being subbed out. He was walking backwards and didn't see me. So are you guys saying that I should have tossed him?

If the contact is intentional than the player or coach is gone. It's simple.

tomegun Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 646365)
I got bumped into in the FRA the other night by a kid who was being subbed out. He was walking backwards and didn't see me. So are you guys saying that I should have tossed him?

If the contact is intentional than the player or coach is gone. It's simple.

I would say no. You are talking about something that happens all the time versus making contact while complaining, etc.

Upward ref Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by representing (Post 646280)
After watching the video, I'd have to agree. Although not intentionally hitting the official, any contact against an official in any sport (except coaches in baseball apparently) should be zero tolerance. I'm sure some words he said could have influenced the ejection as well.

And before anyone says anything, I know some of you may reference back to my post last week about a player making contact with me and I didn't eject him. That was my fault and I don't need a reminder. :o

pretty clear intentional for me . The 30 yard rush with a full head of steam was already as unsportsmanlike as you can get IMO,then turn and slap the hand .i was mad just seeing it. i'm impressed with the calm , professional response and reporting as well , god call, good ref:o

constable Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins (Post 646254)
Video of Brandon Stokley Ref Contact and Ejection

Not sure honestly -- I don't know what he said and that alone could've been grounds for dismissal... but the contacting the official here seems a little finger to finger to me... I really don't know.

I agree what he said may have been enough to get him ejected but contacting the official is as dumb a move as you can make. Whether the contact is severe or not it doesn't matter he has to go.

Adam Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upward ref (Post 646386)
pretty clear intentional for me . The 30 yard rush with a full head of steam was already as unsportsmanlike as you can get IMO,then turn and slap the hand .i was mad just seeing it. i'm impressed with the calm , professional response and reporting as well , god call, good ref:o

Exactly, which is why I was cheering even though it was my team getting penalized. Proof positive to me that I'm watching all these games as an official.

representing Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 646358)
Disagree. Football umpires get knocked down all the time.

A helpful distinction (though not exhaustive) would be live-ball vs. dead-ball contact.

That is true. I was meaning in a dissenting way. I got run over by a player a few weeks ago in a JH game. I'm not going to eject him because it was clearly an accident. I didn't know he was there and he didn't know I was there.

Sorry for not being clear. I meant only when a player or coach is clearly showing dissent while such contact, accidental or intentional, occurs.

representing Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 646365)
I got bumped into in the FRA the other night by a kid who was being subbed out. He was walking backwards and didn't see me. So are you guys saying that I should have tossed him?

If the contact is intentional than the player or coach is gone. It's simple.

That is true. The problem for referees is when it is not CLEARLY intentional and could have been accidental, which is not that simple. As someone mentioned earlier, zero tolerance policy helps so we don't have to guess if it was intentional or not.

In your case with the sub, no ejection. It happens to all of us in basketball. If you asked that after my post before yours, I apologize for not being clear.

representing Mon Dec 28, 2009 01:00pm

I just thought of something. Never happened to me, I've seen it done in professional and college football with the "touchdown" signal.

Shooter shoots a three and makes it. I have both of my hands up to signal a successful three point shot. Player comes over and slaps my hands as a high five touch. Technical?


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