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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:48pm
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10 second FT violation

Has anyone ever called this?

I was told by a clinician to count slowly...

What's your take on this?
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:52pm
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My take? Count slowly.
I wouldn't call it unless my slow count got to 13 or 15 and the shooter is still d1cking around.

The rule is there to prevent a team from using FTs as timeouts. A couple extra seconds really isn't an advantage. If you have a player getting close, you could take a second after the free throw to remind him he only has 10 seconds to shoot.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
If you have a player getting close, you could take a second after the free throw to remind him he only has 10 seconds to shoot.
That's the other thing the clinician suggested. I agree with what you said Snaq
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 02:59pm
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Usually in my games the FT shooters release the ball within 5 seconds. I will get the occasional superstitious shooters that goes through the same, long routine with a series of dribbles, tosses, etc. before shooting, but never had anyone reach 10 seconds on my slow count.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 03:05pm
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I've never called it myself. Closest I've gotten to was an 8 count. Follow what your clinician said and count slowly.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 03:06pm
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I rarely count. If a player appears to be taking a long time, I'll count and have never gotten to 10 but once. on the next FT, the kid took 12 seconds and I called it. The coach's response? "I told you somebody wasn't going to call it eventually."

I don't agree that the rule is to prevent a TO during a FT. The rule exists because there has to be a time frame. If there was no time limit, theoretically, a shooter could stand there forever and there's nothing we could do about it.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 03:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by representing View Post
Usually in my games the FT shooters release the ball within 5 seconds. I will get the occasional superstitious shooters that goes through the same, long routine with a series of dribbles, tosses, etc. before shooting and missing, but never had anyone reach 10 seconds on my slow count.
Fixed it for you.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 04:00pm
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9, 10, 11, 12 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by representing View Post
I will get the occasional superstitious shooters that goes through the same, long routine with a series of dribbles, tosses, etc., before shooting.
I had this, probably the longest routine I've seen in my twenty-nine years of officiating, last weekend. A sixth grader, in a Catholic school game, actually went through three different routines on each shot; a few one handed dribbles, a few two handed dribbles, and the spin and bounce the ball long toss so it comes back to you dribble. With a big breath before, a pause between each segment, and a big breath before the free throw. Had to be about twelve seconds, or so. I was the lead for all of his shots, so I didn't have a count.

I've gotten up to twelve a few times, never higher, and never called it.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 27, 2009 at 04:19pm.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 04:08pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Fixed it for you.
haha, thanks
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 04:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
My take? Count slowly.
A couple extra seconds really isn't an advantage. If you have a player getting close, you could take a second after the free throw to remind him he only has 10 seconds to shoot.
I did not think you apply "Advantage/Disadvantage" for violations.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 04:34pm
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Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
I did not think you apply "Advantage/Disadvantage" for violations.
When in Rome, my friend. Let me say this; there are a few violations that, if applied strictly by rule, will lead to long and distinguished JV careers.

1. 10 second free throw
2. 3 seconds
3. palming
4. multiple fouls
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 04:35pm
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Them's Fight'n Words ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
I did not think you apply "Advantage/Disadvantage" for violations.
Exhibit A
Now, granted, I can't show you that the following applies to violations, since the word "violation" does not appear in the passage. However, please note that the passage does not contain the word "foul" either. The passage clearly states that advantage/disadvantage applies to all "rules".

THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE RULES
The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a
balance of play; to provide equal opportunity between the offense and the
defense; to provide equal opportunity between the small player and tall player; to
provide reasonable safety and protection; to create an atmosphere of sporting
behavior and fair play; and to emphasize cleverness and skill without unduly
limiting freedom of action of individual or team play on either offense or defense.
Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule.

Exhibit B
From the 2009-10 NFHS Rules:

Each state association may authorize the use of artificial limbs which in its opinion are no more dangerous to players than the corresponding human limb and do not place an opponent at a disadvantage

Equipment which is unnatural and designed to increase a player's height or reach or to gain an advantage shall not be permitted

Exhibit B does not refer to fouls, but, rather, illegal equipment.

Exhibit C
From the 2009-10 NFHS Points of Emphasis:

The traveling rule has not changed; however, the committee is still concerned that the rule is not being properly enforced. Consequently, offensive players are gaining a tremendous advantage.

When the closely-guarded rules are not followed, there is a significant advantage for the offense.

The responsible official must make sure that offensive players are not occupying restricted positions for more than the permitted time (three seconds). The offensive player gains an unwarranted advantage if he or she can “camp out” in the lane,

Players are attempting to gain a rebounding advantage by violating the free throw restrictions and entering the lane early.

Exhibit C describes violations, not fouls.

Your Honor, I rest my case.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 27, 2009 at 04:37pm.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 04:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
My take? Count slowly.
I wouldn't call it unless my slow count got to 13 or 15 and the shooter is still d1cking around.
I've called it once in 10 years, in a men's rec league, for this very reason, and then only after warning the guy a couple times.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 04:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
When in Rome, my friend. Let me say this; there are a few violations that, if applied strictly by rule, will lead to long and distinguished JV careers.

1. 10 second free throw
2. 3 seconds
3. palming
4. multiple fouls
I don't agree with #3. Locally, if you don't call palming, you will stay at the JV level.
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Old Sun Dec 27, 2009, 04:59pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
I don't agree with #3. Locally, if you don't call palming, you will stay at the JV level.
I would prefer it that way.
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