First Time Ever

[chartrusepengui]

Boys MS. Coach of Team A is also a registered ref.

Team A up by 23 at half. Teams go to half. Horn sounds with 1:00 remaining of halftime break. Horn sounds a second time with 30 secs of half remaining. Team B out and warming up. AD has been looking for team B since the 3:30 mark. She is also doing the clock. Can't find them anywhere. Coach team B has players on court ready to go at 0;00 mark.

I whistle and give team B ball. (their possession) They score the easy lay-up. Ball bounces on court. Partner puts ball on floor outside endline and does the visual 5 count. Whistle violation and award ball to team B. B scores again as team A runs onto court. They pass ball on to court legally and we get TO request from coach team A. I am T and get earful.... "why would you start without us? You can't do that. Why didn't you send someone to get us? .... etc. Turns out they were actually in a girl's restroom, downstairs from the gym. Why? I've got no clue.

He is pi$$ed the rest of the night. Later - his stat guy tells us that as they were walking back to the gym he told his guys to take it easy and take their time - they can't start without us. What a putz!

[grunewar]

I've put the ball on the floor before and started the count, but never had to start the half without a team!

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I've put the ball on the floor before and started the count, but never had to start the half without a team!

And you shouldn't. It's not the way to resume the half by rule.

If a team isn't available when the half is to begin, you are to instruct the timer to start a 60-second time period. If the team is not available at the end of the "extra minute" they are assessed a team technical foul.

You would never actually start the half without the other team present.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

And you shouldn't. It's not the way to resume the half by rule.

If a team isn't available when the half is to begin, you are to instruct the timer to start a 60-second time period. If the team is not available at the end of the "extra minute" they are assessed a team technical foul.

You would never actually start the half without the other team present.

Actually we did. I really don't see the difference in starting a half without one team present (their choice) or just not coming out of huddle onto the floor (again their choice). The team with the arrow was ready to receive the ball and play. Had they not made the throw in following their first 5 second violation - they would have received a T. Where does it say that if a team is not available to start the second half you are to instruct the timer to start a (another?) 60 second time period. I don't believe I've ever read that one. Heck - they just had an 8:00 time period.

In any case - he learned the lesson. The second game they informed the timer where they would be "hiding out" and were on the court with 3:05 remaining on the clock.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Actually we did. I really don't see the difference in starting a half without one team present (their choice) or just not coming out of huddle onto the floor (again their choice).

Because the rule is differetn -- there's a specific T for "delaying for a full minute at the start of either half" (or some words to that effect).

If a team isn't there, start the clock for a minute, and if it gets to zero, then assess a T.

If both teams are there, then use the ROP procedure (what you used).

That said, if the team wasn't notified (and especially if they couldn't be found), I wouldn't assess the T.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Actually we did. I really don't see the difference in starting a half without one team present (their choice) or just not coming out of huddle onto the floor (again their choice). The team with the arrow was ready to receive the ball and play. Had they not made the throw in following their first 5 second violation - they would have received a T. Where does it say that if a team is not available to start the second half you are to instruct the timer to start a (another?) 60 second time period. I don't believe I've ever read that one. Heck - they just had an 8:00 time period.

In any case - he learned the lesson. The second game they informed the timer where they would be "hiding out" and were on the court with 3:05 remaining on the clock.

When I said "you never start a half without one of the teams," I should have said "by rule you never start a half without one of the teams."

10-1-5 a. When the clock is not running consuming a full minute through not being ready when it is time to start either half.

[chartrusepengui]

If the teams were both present it would have been easy. Even if one team was not present but in locker room it would have been easier to deal with. But - no one knew where they were and from what we gathered - they had gotten into an area where no one was supposed to be.

If we handled it wrong - we did. Can't change that but will be looking and re-reading. It's these weird things that happen that can throw you. On the positive side - it didn't affect the outcome of the game and I know that even this idiot coach won't be late getting back again.

I still don't understand why you would give an "extra" minute in this situation but when the team is present but not on floor you are supposed to start without them. Doesn't make sense - but then I guess it doesn't have to.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

If the teams were both present it would have been easy. Even if one team was not present but in locker room it would have been easier to deal with. But - no one knew where they were and from what we gathered - they had gotten into an area where no one was supposed to be.

If we handled it wrong - we did. Can't change that but will be looking and re-reading. It's these weird things that happen that can throw you. On the positive side - it didn't affect the outcome of the game and I know that even this idiot coach won't be late getting back again.

I still don't understand why you would give an "extra" minute in this situation but when the team is present but not on floor you are supposed to start without them. Doesn't make sense - but then I guess it doesn't have to.

Well, because you do. It's a different situation.

I had a team come out with 15 seconds on the clock in a varsity game a few weeks ago. It was the home team. I was just mentally recalling the procedure when the team showed up. They went right to the huddle and were ready on time.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Well, because you do. It's a different situation.

I had a team come out with 15 seconds on the clock in a varsity game a few weeks ago. It was the home team. I was just mentally recalling the procedure when the team showed up. They went right to the huddle and were ready on time.

Part of our problem was we weren't mentally recalling the procedure/rules. Everyone was intent on trying to find where in the heck the team was. Somehow they got into a part of the school that was supposed to be locked down and were in - of all places - a womens restroom. We guessed later that perhaps they went in there because it was the first unlocked door they came to.

Next time something like this comes up - I will be doing what you were doing - recalling the procedures etc instead of worrying about other things. My bad! I hope it was just the chaos of this time of year and not me beginning to lose it.

[Raymond]

(BV) Last night the team didn't come out until the 1:00 minute mark. They were ready to play at 0:00 with players on the court and team members on the bench, but no coaches in sight.

Continue w/o coaches or wait?

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

(BV) Last night the team didn't come out until the 1:00 minute mark. They were ready to play at 0:00 with players on the court and team members on the bench, but no coaches in sight.

Continue w/o coaches or wait?

You know you need an adult on the sidelines. I think a T if you had to wait more than a minute.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

(BV) Last night the team didn't come out until the 1:00 minute mark. They were ready to play at 0:00 with players on the court and team members on the bench, but no coaches in sight.

Continue w/o coaches or wait?

Originally Posted by Indianaref

You know you need an adult on the sidelines. I think a T if you had to wait more than a minute.

I waited and the HC showed up about within seconds.

(No rule book handy) Have a rules citation for administering a 'T' in this situation?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I waited and the HC showed up about within seconds.

(No rule book handy) Have a rules citation for administering a 'T' in this situation?

Would be the same rule as above regarding an actionless contact at the start of either half. 10-1-5 a.

That said, I haven't found anywhere in the rulebook that actually says a coach is necessary. Common sense says that in a high school contest, adult supervision is necessary. But I don't have a rule reference for that...

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Part of our problem was we weren't mentally recalling the procedure/rules. Everyone was intent on trying to find where in the heck the team was. Somehow they got into a part of the school that was supposed to be locked down and were in - of all places - a womens restroom. We guessed later that perhaps they went in there because it was the first unlocked door they came to.

Next time something like this comes up - I will be doing what you were doing - recalling the procedures etc instead of worrying about other things. My bad! I hope it was just the chaos of this time of year and not me beginning to lose it.

I believe that this is a game management issue -- I DON'T MEAN OFFICIALS game management. Teams should be told when they arrive (visitors AND the referee team) where they can change/meet before the game, during the game and after the game. They should be led there. Otherwise, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the timer to meet his requirement of giving the teams a warning about timing and the start of a second half.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Would be the same rule as above regarding an actionless contact at the start of either half. 10-1-5 a.

That said, I haven't found anywhere in the rulebook that actually says a coach is necessary. Common sense says that in a high school contest, adult supervision is necessary. But I don't have a rule reference for that...

This is a state issue, IMO. Virtually every state I know of requires a coach (different states have different requirements for who can take this role) in order for the game to proceed; that's why we forfeit a game if all the coaches get DQd.