Leaving Bench when fight may break out.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by referee99

Gents,

Just trying to firm up my understanding of the penalties for players leaving the bench when a fight may break out, NFHS rules.

Sitch:
2nd half is about to start with throw in by Team B.
A1 and B1 do a double shove near division line,
A6, A7, A8, A9, & A10 come rushing in.
B6, B7, B8 come rushing in.

No fight. Indirects from actions of bench personnel cause coaches to both be ejected.
Intentional technicals on A1 & B1 for dead ball fouls.
Flagrant player technicals on the 8 who came on the court. All 8 team members from the bench are disqualified.
Differential from the two groups off the bench is a max of 2 free-throws. Team B will have 2 free-throws with the lane cleared and the ball for throw-in at the division line opposite the table. Team B keeps the arrow for A/P throw-in.
Team fouls for the half are now Team A: 6, and Team B: 4.

Just looking for confirmation that the penalty for team members leaving the bench when a fight may break out are flagrant player technicals and that each results in a team foul.

Do I have it right?

Everything except for the number of indirects to the Head Coaches. Each should only receive a single one.

Yes, the technical fouls by the team members leaving the bench are flagrant and each one counts toward the team foul count under NFHS rules.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Everything except for the number of indirects to the Head Coaches. Each should only receive a single one.

Yes, the technical fouls by the team members leaving the bench are flagrant and each one counts toward the team foul count under NFHS rules.

What if they are involved in a fight? Then does the HC get 1 indirect T for every player involved, and one T for them leaving?

For example:

A1 and B1 are fighting on court. A6-A10 and B6-B8 comes onto the court.

A6, A7 get involved with fight, B6, B7 and B8 get involved. A8, A9 and A10 do not participate in fight but stand there watching while on the court.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by representing

What if they are involved in a fight? Then does the HC get 1 indirect T for every player involved, and one T for them leaving?

The coach gets one indirect for each who particiaptates, and one more for all who leave but don't participate.

[tjones1]

Therefore, in your situation, both coaches would be ejected.

Coach A:
1 indirect for A6 participating
1 indirect for A7 participating
1 indirect for A8, A9, and A10 leaving the bench

Coach B:
1 indirect for B6 participating
1 indirect for B7 participating
1 indirect for B8 participating

So:
A1, A6, A7, A8, A9, A10, B1, B6, B7, B8, Coach A, and Coach B are all done for the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

What if they are involved in a fight? Then does the HC get 1 indirect T for every player involved, and one T for them leaving?

It would be one indirect T for each team member who engaged in the fight. If there were other team members who left the bench, but did not join the fray, then another indirect would be assessed for all of them. However, if only two leave and both become involved, then it is only two indirects, not three (as there wouldn't be one for both of them leaving the bench).

Originally Posted by representing

For example:

A1 and B1 are fighting on court. A6-A10 and B6-B8 comes onto the court.

A6, A7 get involved with fight, B6, B7 and B8 get involved. A8, A9 and A10 do not participate in fight but stand there watching while on the court.

1. Double flagrant foul on A1 and B1, both disqualified, no FTs. One team foul for each side. (Personal or Technical determined by whether the action took place during a live or dead ball.)

2. Two from Team A leave and fight, Three from Team B leave and fight: each receives a flagrant technical foul and is disqualified. Two team fouls against Team A, three against Team B. Head Coach for Team A receives two indirects. Head Coach for Team B receives three indirects and is DQ'd. Team A would be due two FTs as Team B had one extra fighter.

3. Two members from Team A left the bench, but did not become involved. Each receives a flagrant technical foul and is disqualified. Two team fouls against Team A. Head Coach for Team A receives one indirect T for the actions of these two team members, when combined with the two indirects received in section 2 this gives him three and equals a disqualification. Team B would be due only two FTs as neither team member from Team A was a fighter.

4. Cancel the 2FTs for Team A from part 2 with the 2FTs for Team B from part 3 and resume at the POI, per Case Book rulings listed under 10.4.5.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It would be one indirect T for each team member who engaged in the fight. If there were other team members who left the bench, but did not join the fray, then another indirect would be assessed for all of them. However, if only two leave and both become involved, then it is only two indirects, not three (as there wouldn't be one for both of them leaving the bench).


1. Double flagrant foul on A1 and B1, both disqualified, no FTs. One team foul for each side. (Personal or Technical determined by whether the action took place during a live or dead ball.)

2. Two from Team A leave and fight, Three from Team B leave and fight: each receives a flagrant technical foul and is disqualified. Two team fouls against Team A, three against Team B. Head Coach for Team A receives two indirects. Head Coach for Team B receives three indirects and is DQ'd. Team A would be due two FTs as Team B had one extra fighter.

3. Two members from Team A left the bench, but did not become involved. Each receives a flagrant technical foul and is disqualified. Two team fouls against Team A. Head Coach for Team A receives one indirect T for the actions of these two team members, when combined with the two indirects received in section 2 this gives him three and equals a disqualification. Team B would be due only two FTs as neither team member from Team A was a fighter.

4. Cancel the 2FTs for Team A from part 2 with the 2FTs for Team B from part 3 and resume at the POI, per Case Book rulings listed under 10.4.5.

Thanks Nevada. I have no intention of having the FT cancel out in this explanation, I was just making up numbers as I went. It's pretty coincidental that the FTs did cancel out in the end. Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it.