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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 10:26am
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Looking for thoughts from experienced officials. Working a Jr. High game, 8th grade boys. Fourth quarter, Red Team down by 18. Red Team calls time out, while in the huddle in front of their bench a shoving match breaks out between two red players. Red #1 shoves Red #2 and then begins to go after him. I stop him and tell the coach he's gone. Coach says right he's outta here. I look to my partner for guidance for reporting, he says time had been called, it was between players on the same team ejection was enough. This was only my sixth game, but seems there should have been more than that. Educate me please.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 10:52am
Ref Ump Welsch
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I believe you shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place. Same team, during a timeout, is the coach's problem. If there's only one coach, I probably would have stepped in to help the coach separate the players, nothing else.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 10:56am
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Welcome to the board, Geoff.

No contact has occured between opponents, so the only foul can call is fighting, which is a flagrant technical foul, penalized by ejection, 2 free throws for the opposing team, and possession to them as well.

Is fighting limited, by rule, to between opponents? Yes, according to R4-S18-A1,2.

At this point, the only call I see you can make is "making a travesty of the game". I guess this falls unders 2-3, and so does the penalty.

I also think that the ejections was enough. I'm willing to bet that this player was the instigator, and likely you will not have another incident in the game.

Kudos for properly identifying that the player should be ejected, and looking to yuor P, who likely was more experienced in cae he had something to add.

Enjoy the forum.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 11:19am
Ref Ump Welsch
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Juggling Ref, I would have to disagree with you. The coach should be given the first opportunity to handle this situation on his/her own. If he/she can't, then it would be alright for the official to step in. I understand that making a travesty of the game would not apply here, since they didn't do anything to their opponents, etc. They are doing it to each other.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 11:49am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Juggling Ref, I would have to disagree with you. The coach should be given the first opportunity to handle this situation on his/her own. If he/she can't, then it would be alright for the official to step in. I understand that making a travesty of the game would not apply here, since they didn't do anything to their opponents, etc. They are doing it to each other.
Making a travesty of the certainly does apply when fighting breaks out amongst teammates.

Do we allow 4 people rom teh same team to fight among themselves. Where does it stop? 6? 8? The whole team?

Quote:
Originally posted by Geoff Waller
Red #1 shoves Red #2 and then begins to go after him
He went after him! I picture Red #2 looking at Red 1 saying "what the h3ll are you doing?" And running around the bench/court to prevent from taking a shot from Red 1. Clearly, Red 1 would rather be elsewhere. Wish granted.

I will admit, that the coach should be given the first opportunity to remove a player, but do you really a coach will eject his own player? Bench him maybe... but eject? I'm not so sure about that.
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Old Mon Feb 02, 2004, 11:55am
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Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
Welcome to the board, Geoff.

No contact has occured between opponents, so the only foul can call is fighting, which is a flagrant technical foul, penalized by ejection, 2 free throws for the opposing team, and possession to them as well.

Is fighting limited, by rule, to between opponents? Yes, according to R4-S18-A1,2.

Then call it an unsporting act -- this can also be flagrant and isn't limited to being between opponents.

In one of the recent POEs, there was an example of a coach berating his players or using foul language -- ruling: T.

Use this as a precedent.

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