Foul or No Foul?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by eyezen

And I can tell you about a block and a charge...no stalemate its called a double foul. Are you JAR in disguise?

No disguises here. The play he describes, where each official is adamant about his own call, is the one time I see where double foul is your only option, even though it still doesn't make sense.

[jkohls]

Is there really a question here? Easy call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jallen

not much to argue about, the call was right and solid. However, the ref should have done a better job of selling it. He knows how much time there is, he looks up at 18 sec. We have an expression here, "referee the key", he is way to far out. those are things an evaluator should deal with.
the call was solid tho, pass on it means you decide the game. The kids worked hard to penetrate the key and get a shot off, they deserve the foul call

Actually, he's in the best possible position given 2-whistle realities. With a third whistle, this would be the C's call. Lead doesn't have a chance to come across, so his best chance is to stay wide so he doesn't get too close. In reality, he's got a great angle on this play. He's deep enough not to get straightlined by any other players.

[Smitty]

On a lighter note, I love the dramatic music during the free throw.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by imgrund

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

BktBallRef: One official may not OVERRULE the other? Tell me then what happens if 1 official calls block and one calls charge and each is 100% adamant about their call and unwilling to change? According to your logic it's a stalemate and the game is stopped right there.

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official. A jump/held ball is indicated by the 'jump-ball' signal. Are you that ignorant of NFHS terminology? I can already tell you're one of those refs that wants the focus
of any game on himself. See http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2867 for more
info on basic terminology. Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

Wow, bad grammar and bad spelling.

BZ's point is that the ball wasn't pinned. After the shooter's arms get raked, it falls loose. It's not the term, it's the facts you're struggling with; but that would hurt your argument so you should probably ignore it.

And the rules very specifically state an official may not overrule another official. Your ignorance of this fact isn't surprising, however. And in your little hypothetical play, the solution is a double foul. In spite of your obvious belief that officials are egomaniacal alpha males, that situation wouldn't happen.

Originally Posted by imgrund

And I agree with Jallen - I don't so much disagree with the call as I do the positioning of the official. "Referee the key".
Remember: You are watching the call from a better angle than the lead ref. From the lead ref's angle, is that a foul? Can you see the contact from his/her
vantage point? Or are you going by your hypothesis that a guard can't pin a centre?

Actually, the lead official (that's what we call "the official under the net") has a great view, but I addressed this already.

As for your the paragraph in blue, you're contradicting yourself. Allow me to quote you:

Originally Posted by imgrund

2) When the score if 57-57 with under 20 seconds to go, unless there's blood or an egregious foul, I'd never blow my whistle!

If anything, in a case like this, if I were the other ref, I would have overruled the ref under the net and either called 'jump ball' (as the ball was pinned) or 'inadvertent whistle'.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by imgrund

And you are definitely one confused and ignorant official.

Apparently scorers and timers know more than yoursef.

Where else can you get this type of entertainment?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Where else can you get this type of entertainment?

It's almost as good as March.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by imgrund

Bad Zebra - Obviously you're unfamiliar with the term 'pinned' since it's not in the NFHS rule book or case book. Try to think a little outside the box.

OK Enlightened One. Bring us out of the dark abyss of ignorance and tell us whether by "pinned" you mean HELD BALL between two players or "pinned" against the backboard on a blocked shot attempt.

In either case, there's no evidence in the video. But we're glad that you stopped by for this teaching moment and shared your obviously vast officiating expertise. We'll all be better for it and sure to make the right call the next time we do a game that you're attending.

[TimTaylor]

imgrund,

I'm in complete agreement with the majority here:
1. This was clearly a foul and an easy one to call at that
2. It was in the L's primary area and he was correctly positioned to call it

From your original and subsequent posts, you clearly have no conceptual basis in reality when it comes to either the practice or principles of officiating, and your apparent knowledge of the rules of the game of basketball isn't much better. I could itemize, but others here have already done so quite accurately and succinctly so there's no point in making this post longer than necessary.

The bottom line is that you came to an official's discussion site with a question, apparently expecting justification and support for your preconceived opinions. You were given honest, knowledgeable and correct answers by officials with many years of experience. Instead of being upset that they didn't agree with you, try learning from the information provided to help expand your knowledge and understanding of the game. If you come here you will get honest answers - if you're looking for sympathy, go find a "fan boy" site.

[referee99]

... that the thrower was going to shoot his 2nd?
I never heard a horn with that dramatic music playing, but....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by referee99

That the thrower was going to shoot his 2nd? I never heard a horn with that dramatic music playing, but....

I did see all zeros on the game clock, and no rebounders on the lanes, so the game horn must have sounded. In fact if you listen carefully, you can hear the horn sound a split second after the whistle (which can lead to another question). I wondered the same thing. It looks like the trail is signaling a second shot, and the lead hangs around to get the ball back after it ended up in the hands of the shooter. In any case, the two officials don't seem to be "heading out of Dodge" in any big hurry. Of course, the home team did win, so maybe they wanted to stick around to take their bows.

Now, who wants to post something about the split second difference? Let the games, and the fun, begin.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by referee99

... that the thrower was going to shoot his 2nd?
I never heard a horn with that dramatic music playing, but....

But, assuming that there was not another call made that the video does not show, we know that the horn did indeed sound. And how do we know this?

Raise your hand. Don't shout out the answer, Billy.

[APG]

I clicked on the link expecting a bang bang call, and all we get is THAT? That's about as easy as they come. Correct call coming from the correct official.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Raise your hand. Don't shout out the answer, Billy.

But you never call on me.

[just another ref]

And don't edit your post to make it look like you already had the answer before I gave you a hint, Billy.