The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 11:27am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,406
Rationale For Timeout Requests ...

Coaches should not be allowed to request timeouts during live ball situations. Over the past several years there have been a few points of emphasis regarding coaches calling timeouts during live ball situations, but this hasn’t made the enforcement of this rule any easier. A common situation is where a player is trapped along a boundary, often in a corner, is about to turnover the ball, or is about to be caught in a held ball situation, or is about to commit a five second violation, and the coach requests a timeout to maintain possession of the ball. As officials, we’re watching for fouls, traveling, boundary lines, counting five seconds, etc., a very difficult situation to begin with, and now we hear, usually from behind us, “time out”. We have to make sure that the request came from the head coach, not an assistant coach, or from a parent sitting behind the team bench, and check to make sure that the ball is being held, or dribbled, by a player from that head coach’s team, before we grant the request. Either go back to the old rule only allowing players holding, or dribbling, the ball to request a timeout, or only allow coaches to request timeouts during dead ball situations, including during the dead ball period immediately after a made basket.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 11:38am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Coaches should not be allowed to request timeouts during live ball situations. Over the past several years there have been a few points of emphasis regarding coaches calling timeouts during live ball situations, but this hasn’t made the enforcement of this rule any easier. A common situation is where a player is trapped along a boundary, often in a corner, is about to turnover the ball, or is about to be caught in a held ball situation, or is about to commit a five second violation, and the coach requests a timeout to maintain possession of the ball. As officials, we’re watching for fouls, traveling, boundary lines, counting five seconds, etc., a very difficult situation to begin with, and now we hear, usually from behind us, “time out”. We have to make sure that the request came from the head coach, not an assistant coach, or from a parent sitting behind the team bench, and check to make sure that the ball is being held, or dribbled, by a player from that head coach’s team, before we grant the request. Either go back to the old rule only allowing players holding, or dribbling, the ball to request a timeout, or only allow coaches to request timeouts during dead ball situations, including during the dead ball period immediately after a made basket.
I think a big part of the problem is situational awareness. We had one situation last night where a coach was right in front of the L going down the floor asking for a timeout at a logical time and the L didn't notice it. I caught it first from the C opposite the table -- I was looking for it. You can't always know when someone is going to request a timeout, but you should have an idea. Good official, too, just didn't hear the coach. I was looking across for it.

I'm on the opposite side here. I'd hate to know a coach wanted a timeout and have to wait until he/she got the player's attention in order to grant it. I remember those days. Now is better.

Eliminate all live ball timeouts? I'd go for that.

We have 16-minute halves as an option in non-conference games this season. No incentive for the coaches, really. It costs them 2 free 60-second timeouts. If we'd given them each an extra 30-second timeout or required a "media timeout" in each half at the first dead ball under 8 minutes, we'd see more teams try it out, I think. I'd like this -- 2 less last second shot possibilities and two less AP situations.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 12:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 559
Getting rid of jump balls period? Not a fan of that idea at all. One jump ball a game ( not counting any overtime or a re-toss) shouldn't really be an issue. There is nothing wrong with a jump ball to start the game and overtimes.

I had my first game that didn't start with a jump ball in a long time yesterday- kid in a JV game dunked ( twice, first one he was spoken too) in the warm up- that's a silly rule. I know others disagree with me.

Another rule I know others disagree with me on is seeing an player disqualified for a flagrant foul have to leave the bench and goto the dressing room.

The ability for teams to mutually agree on the colour of their uniforms ( home in dark, away in white) seems only natural to me.

I prefer people being able to enter the lane on release of the ball, but I believe NHFS changed that about 10 years ago or so to clean up rough play.

OH YA- shot clocks. Shot clocks make for such a better game. In going from FIBA with a 24 second shot clock to Fed with an 4 8 minute shot clocks, it is such a better game.

So if I could change only one rule, it would be the implementation of shot clocks for all high school and up games.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 12:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 439
I remember quite some time ago I did a pre-season G tournament in Iowa where they experimented with the shot clock. It worked well, but we did have some issues with the personnel running the clock at times. There would be a rather big learning curve for officials and the table getting started. Can't say I remember what ever came of it. Anyone from Iowa have anything?
__________________
"The soldier is the army."

-General George S. Patton, Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 12:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 69
Send a message via AIM to jalons
Iowa

Quote:
Originally Posted by j51969 View Post
I remember quite some time ago I did a pre-season G tournament in Iowa where they experimented with the shot clock. It worked well, but we did have some issues with the personnel running the clock at times. There would be a rather big learning curve for officials and the table getting started. Can't say I remember what ever came of it. Anyone from Iowa have anything?
I do not remember the Girls' Union ever attempting to implement the shot clock. I can only imagine the melees this would cause with the table crews and officials in the state. The schools would also hide behind the initial cost of the setup if this was ever brought up for discussion.

The Girls' Union is allowing the teams to play two sixteen minute halves in non-conference games in both coaches agree. Each conference can adopt this change, if every school agrees. I have heard of a few schools experimenting with this change but I have not been involved in any high school game playing two halves. I would vote for the change to eliminate the quarter break during each half.

The Girls' Union did require a coin toss during my short officiating career. I worked a junior high travel-ball tournament during that time with a team from Minneapolis playing a team from Kansas City. We were using NFHS rules with the Iowa adaptations. At the captain's meeting I asked the visiting team (on the scoreboard) to call the coin toss. She looked at me and asked "are you f@cking kidding me?" My first response was, "I wish I was."
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 12:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalons View Post
I do not remember the Girls' Union ever attempting to implement the shot clock. I can only imagine the melees this would cause with the table crews and officials in the state. The schools would also hide behind the initial cost of the setup if this was ever brought up for discussion.

The Girls' Union is allowing the teams to play two sixteen minute halves in non-conference games in both coaches agree. Each conference can adopt this change, if every school agrees. I have heard of a few schools experimenting with this change but I have not been involved in any high school game playing two halves. I would vote for the change to eliminate the quarter break during each half.

The Girls' Union did require a coin toss during my short officiating career. I worked a junior high travel-ball tournament during that time with a team from Minneapolis playing a team from Kansas City. We were using NFHS rules with the Iowa adaptations. At the captain's meeting I asked the visiting team (on the scoreboard) to call the coin toss. She looked at me and asked "are you f@cking kidding me?" My first response was, "I wish I was."
If I heard a girl in junior high respond that way during a captains meeting, I would be too stunned to speak.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2009, 01:05am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
How do you not call this T?
I worked plenty of those tourneys when I was there, and that would have been a quick one.

"Never mind the coin toss."
Indirect to the coach, two shots, ball. Much easier that way.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 01:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable View Post
OH YA- shot clocks. Shot clocks make for such a better game. In going from FIBA with a 24 second shot clock to Fed with an 4 8 minute shot clocks, it is such a better game.

So if I could change only one rule, it would be the implementation of shot clocks for all high school and up games.
  • I agree, a 48 minute shot clock would be ideal. (I know, I know, he was being sarcastic about 4 x 8 minute quarters.) But schools are in $$ trouble already. Install shot clocks AND find decent operators? Hold on that please....

  • FT lane restrictions end on release.

  • If the opposing coach yells "I want a time out next time we have the ball" to the official while he runs past the coach, while my player is on a fast break, that causes an inadvertant whistle stopping my break, he gets a T for unsporting.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 01:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
If the opposing coach yells "I want a time out next time we have the ball" to the official while he runs past the coach, while my player is on a fast break, that causes an inadvertant whistle stopping my break, he gets a T for unsporting.
How often does this ever happen in a Varsity game? This is silly.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 01:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
How often does this ever happen in a Varsity game? This is silly.
Last night...except for the T part....
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 02:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP View Post
Last night...except for the T part....
You must have had a moron for an official then. What coach in his right mind would call a timeout while his team has a fast break? Knowing this, any reputable varsity official would think to look and make sure the correct coach actually requested a timeout. I assume this was the new trail as the new lead would have been closer to you at the time?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 02:18pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,564
Get rid of the current coaches box and let coaches use a college style box. Then when they get T'd, they can sit down like the current rule. Then they have no excuse for getting stuck.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 09:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable View Post
Getting rid of jump balls period? Not a fan of that idea at all. One jump ball a game ( not counting any overtime or a re-toss) shouldn't really be an issue. There is nothing wrong with a jump ball to start the game and overtimes.

I had my first game that didn't start with a jump ball in a long time yesterday- kid in a JV game dunked ( twice, first one he was spoken too) in the warm up- that's a silly rule. I know others disagree with me.

Another rule I know others disagree with me on is seeing an player disqualified for a flagrant foul have to leave the bench and goto the dressing room.

The ability for teams to mutually agree on the colour of their uniforms ( home in dark, away in white) seems only natural to me.

I prefer people being able to enter the lane on release of the ball, but I believe NHFS changed that about 10 years ago or so to clean up rough play.

OH YA- shot clocks. Shot clocks make for such a better game. In going from FIBA with a 24 second shot clock to Fed with an 4 8 minute shot clocks, it is such a better game.

So if I could change only one rule, it would be the implementation of shot clocks for all high school and up games.
Constable,

You should move down here to Washington State then. We have a 30-second shot clock for girls, & a 35-second shot clock for boys. The WIAA amended the Boys' shot clock regulation just over the summer. It's been interesting to see the coaches getting used to the shot clock & the style of play has evolved from it.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 16, 2009, 09:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
How about just play "street rules", no blood, no foul??
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 17, 2009, 10:24pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
"What time is tipoff?" Keep the jump ball start for tradition's sake.

I am a big fan of only dead ball TO requests by the coach. The kids know the coach's voice from practice. They show be able to signal the request to the officials. But no live ball TO requests? No. The ball is live at the disposal of the thrower-in and often requests will come late in the count. Same thing with pressure in the backcourt.

Make delay entering the court after a throw-in a violation instead of a technical foul.
__________________
Never hit a piñata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
King James Larks Basketball 5 Sat May 03, 2008 09:48am
The King is gone gsf23 Softball 8 Wed Feb 14, 2007 04:16pm
The KING is coming! JEL Softball 7 Wed Mar 30, 2005 09:43am
The King and His Court SC Ump Softball 13 Sun Oct 31, 2004 05:52am
It's good to be the King. Mark Padgett Basketball 6 Mon Feb 17, 2003 07:40am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:34pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1