Subbing Player on a IW

[JPaco54]

Sub waiting to come into the game to replace the foul shooter. Foul Shooter misses shot, defense rebounds starts to dribble, horn sounds, players continue for a second then Ref blows his whistle, for what reason we do not know. Play stops, points to partner who is Trail to inbound the ball, a fan yells to the ref there is a sub and he tells the fan the player can wait. Fan yells back, now that he has the ref's ear, but you whistled the play dead and you can sub on a dead ball. Ref says to the fan, he will wait there all night if I want him too.

I thought the sub could enter at this point even though the Ref had an IW. Can not the sub be beckoned into the game at this point?

I also had a problem with this ref talking to the fan at a BV HS game. Classless...

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

Sub waiting to come into the game to replace the foul shooter. Foul Shooter misses shot, defense rebounds starts to dribble, horn sounds, players continue for a second then Ref blows his whistle, for what reason we do not know. Play stops, points to partner who is Trail to inbound the ball, a fan yells to the ref there is a sub and he tells the fan the player can wait. Fan yells back, now that he has the ref's ear, but you whistled the play dead and you can sub on a dead ball. Ref says to the fan, he will wait there all night if I want him too.

I thought the sub could enter at this point even though the Ref had an IW. Can not the sub be beckoned into the game at this point?

I also had a problem with this ref talking to the fan at a BV HS game. Classless...

From my POV, as scoreboard/timer, the sub can only go in for the FT Shooter if the attempt was made, otherwise play continues & clock runs as if FT shot was a regular rebound. Only when the ball becomes dead from OOB, Jump Ball, or other dead ball situations can the sub go in.

[ODJ]

Seems the timer had the IW (IH) to get the sub in on a made shot. Oops.
Horn sounds, I'm killing action anyway (hope not during a fast break.)
Ball's dead, let the kid in, and don't chat up the crowd.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

Sub waiting to come into the game to replace the foul shooter. Foul Shooter misses shot, defense rebounds starts to dribble, horn sounds, players continue for a second then Ref blows his whistle, for what reason we do not know. Play stops, points to partner who is Trail to inbound the ball, a fan yells to the ref there is a sub and he tells the fan the player can wait. Fan yells back, now that he has the ref's ear, but you whistled the play dead and you can sub on a dead ball. Ref says to the fan, he will wait there all night if I want him too.

I thought the sub could enter at this point even though the Ref had an IW. Can not the sub be beckoned into the game at this point?

Yes, he can enter.

I also had a problem with this ref talking to the fan at a BV HS game. Classless...

But you didn't have a problem with the fan yelling at the ref?

Quite honestly, it's no less classless.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

From my POV, as scoreboard/timer, the sub can only go in for the FT Shooter if the attempt was made, otherwise play continues & clock runs as if FT shot was a regular rebound. Only when the ball becomes dead from OOB, Jump Ball, or other dead ball situations can the sub go in.

Wrong. He can come on when the ball is dead for ANY reason.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Wrong. He can come on when the ball is dead for ANY reason.

Interesting, I had always been told that in FT, if a sub for the shooter is waiting, they must wait until the FT Shooter makes their last attempt or the next dead ball situation after the attempt.

I can see the reasoning behind the allowing of the sub in due to both the IW & IH as stoppage of play did occur.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by chseagle

From my POV, as scoreboard/timer, the sub can only go in for the FT Shooter if the attempt was made, otherwise play continues & clock runs as if FT shot was a regular rebound. Only when the ball becomes dead from OOB, Jump Ball held ball, or other dead ball situations can the sub go in.

Those only occur at the beginning of the game and to start an extra period.

Yep, any dead ball period. This applies to NFHS.

I believe it's different for NCAA.

[APG]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Those only occur at the beginning of the game and to start an extra period.

Yep, any dead ball period. This applies to NFHS.

I believe it's different for NCAA.

I believe you can't do it under the last minute left in the game if there's an IW.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Interesting, I had always been told that in FT, if a sub for the shooter is waiting, they must wait until the FT Shooter makes their last attempt or the next dead ball situation after the attempt.

I can see the reasoning behind the allowing of the sub in due to both the IW & IH as stoppage of play did occur.

My statement is not contrary to that. Obviously he can't come in for the shooter until he's shot all his FTs. My answer was addressing your previous answer that said he could only enter during certain dead ball situations.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by chseagle

From my POV, as scoreboard/timer, the sub can only go in for the FT Shooter if the attempt was made, otherwise play continues & clock runs as if FT shot was a regular rebound. Only when the ball becomes dead from OOB, Jump Ball, or other dead ball situations can the sub go in.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

My statement is not contrary to that. Obviously he can't come in for the shooter until he's shot all his FTs. My answer was addressing your previous answer that said he could only enter during certain dead ball situations.

After rereading my post, I see the error I made in how I stated it. I should of stated after any dead ball.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Yep, any dead ball period. This applies to NFHS.

Not if the clock is running.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ODJ

Horn sounds, I'm killing action anyway (hope not during a fast break.)

This is incorrect procedure. See 2.11.3: "If the
scorer signals while the ball is live, the official should ignore the signal if a
scoring play is in progress. Otherwise, the official may stop play to determine the
reason for the scorer’s signal."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This is incorrect procedure. See 2.11.3: "If the
scorer signals while the ball is live, the official should ignore the signal if a
scoring play is in progress. Otherwise, the official may stop play to determine the
reason for the scorer’s signal."

Right. And, I'm goign to know (I hope) that it was for the sub, so I'm going to ignore it and tell the teams to play on. If they stop because of the horn, then I'll blow the whistle and get the sub in.

[Adam]

If I know it's for a sub, I ignore it and tell the players to keep playing. Once an official blows the whistle, however, the sub will come in. I can't say how I'd respond to the crowd here, because the ref was wrong not to let the sub in, the fan was right even if he was inappropriate.