Causing concussions

[chseagle]

Had this happen during Girls' Varsity the other night....

First quarter, visitng team shoots & misses, home team goes for rebound, in the process of home player rebounding, a visitng player pushes her while she's in mid-air where she slams into the wall & collapses on floor in a heap. Floor officials called an officials' timeout, Home HC attending to player who didn't respond/move for about 5 minutes. Finally player gets up showing signs/symptoms of concussion.

Play continues on at POI, no foul charged to visiting team for excessive contact.

Home player was assisted back to bench with help of coach, but stays at bench.

How should this play have been called? Should EMS have been contacted, with stoppage of play until EMS removes injured player?

Am wondering if the proper step(s) were done, since I am questioniing the situation, after viewing the WIAA Online Rules Clinic & the information about the Zackery Lystedt Law concerning concussions.

More information about the Zackery Lystedt Law can be found at: http://wiaa.com/subcontent.aspx?SecID=623

[Nevadaref]

The NFHS published this a couple of years ago.


Point of Emphasis for 2006-07
Proper Procedures for Handling Apparent Concussions

ACTION PLAN
If you suspect that a player has a concussion, you should take the following steps:

1. Remove athlete from play.
2. Ensure athlete is evaluated by an appropriate health care professional. Do not try to judge the seriousness of the injury yourself.
3. Inform athlete's parents or guardians about the known or possible concussion and give them the fact sheet on concussion.
4. Allow the athlete to return to play only with permission from an appropriate health care professional.


SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS

These signs and symptoms may indicate that a concussion has occurred.

Signs Observed by Coaching Staff

• Appears dazed or stunned

• Is confused about assignment

• Forgets plays

• Is unsure of game, score or opponent

• Moves clumsily

• Answers questions slowly

• Loses consciousness

• Shows behavior or personality changes

• Can't recall events prior to hit

• Can't recall events after hit

Symptoms Reported by Athlete

• Headache

• Nausea

• Balance problems or dizziness

• Double vision or fuzzy vision

• Sensitivity to light or noise

• Feeling sluggish

• Feeling foggy or groggy

• Concentration or memory problems

• Confusion

[chseagle]

She was removed from play, but she was just assisted to the bench & sat down, without, from what I could tell, someone closely monitoring her for the rest of the game. Like I said in my initial post, the HC went to her side after the officials called for time. It was the HC that assisted her back to the bench. EMS was not called, nor was there an Athletic Trainer on-site to do proper evaluation.

Below, in your reply I've put in bold what I saw as signs/symptoms.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS published this a couple of years ago.


Point of Emphasis for 2006-07
Proper Procedures for Handling Apparent Concussions

ACTION PLAN
If you suspect that a player has a concussion, you should take the following steps:

1. Remove athlete from play.
2. Ensure athlete is evaluated by an appropriate health care professional. Do not try to judge the seriousness of the injury yourself.
3. Inform athlete's parents or guardians about the known or possible concussion and give them the fact sheet on concussion.
4. Allow the athlete to return to play only with permission from an appropriate health care professional.


SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS

These signs and symptoms may indicate that a concussion has occurred.

Signs Observed by Coaching Staff

• Appears dazed or stunned

• Is confused about assignment

• Forgets plays

• Is unsure of game, score or opponent

• Moves clumsily

• Answers questions slowly

• Loses consciousness

• Shows behavior or personality changes

• Can't recall events prior to hit

• Can't recall events after hit

Symptoms Reported by Athlete

• Headache

• Nausea

• Balance problems or dizziness

• Double vision or fuzzy vision

• Sensitivity to light or noise

• Feeling sluggish

• Feeling foggy or groggy

• Concentration or memory problems

• Confusion

I was at halfcourt, behind the scorers table when the incidence happened. I did have a clear line of sight however to see the proceedings.

[APG]

As an official, what I'm concerned about is:

1. Making sure someone is penalized if a foul is committed and to make sure said player is appropriately punished (common foul, intentional, flagrant)

2. Make sure hurt player is attended to and given as much time as necessary. If an EMS is called, then we're probably waiting till they arrived and the player is taken from the scene.

3. If an EMS is not called and if I deem that hurt player appears to have lost consciousness, that he/she will not allowed into the game without a note from an M.D.

Beyond that, I'm note sure what else we can do.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

She was removed from play, but she was just assisted to the bench & sat down, without, from what I could tell, someone closely monitoring her for the rest of the game. Like I said in my initial post, the HC went to her side after the officials called for time. It was the HC that assisted her back to the bench. EMS was not called, nor was there an Athletic Trainer on-site to do proper evaluation.

Below, in your reply I've put in bold what I saw as signs/symptoms.

I was at halfcourt, behind the scorers table when the incidence [sic] happened. I did have a clear line of sight however to see the proceedings.

Once the athlete was removed from play, game management should have taken over and gotten her the medical attention that was required.

If a coach suspected a concussion, then he could ask for an on-site trainer (which you say was not present) or arrange for transportation to another location for proper evaluation via a parent or responsible adult (EMS/REMSA is probably not necessary).

Game officials try to stay out of medical matters as much as possible.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

As an official, what I'm concerned about is:

1. Making sure someone is penalized if a foul is committed and to make sure said player is appropriately punished (common foul, intentional, flagrant)

2. Make sure hurt player is attended to and given as much time as necessary. If an EMS is called, then we're probably waiting till they arrived and the player is taken from the scene.

3. If an EMS is not called and if I deem that hurt player appears to have lost consciousness, that he/she will not allowed into the game without a note from an M.D.

Beyond that, I'm note sure what else we can do.

AllPurposeGamer,

Here in Washington State, there's a brand new law on the books called the Zackery Lystedt Law that has to deal with concussions in Interscholastic Athletics. Part of the law is that, if a concussion happens (losing consciousness or not), the student-athlete cannot practice nor participate in games until cleared by a medical professional that has the training to diagnosis & deal with concussions. The law was signed into effect by Gov. Gregoire this past summer.

How I saw the play occur, the home player was in the air going for the rebound, when the visiting player made physical contact by pushing/shoving the home player OOB & into a padded wall. When the home player hit the padded wall, a loud thud was heard throughout the gym.

I'm questioning whether they should of moved the player, & not just called EMS to get her examined. It was the HC at her side as soon as the officials whistled for stoppage of play, who decided to get her up on her feet & assist her over to the bench.

When the home player was finally mobile, & assisted to the bench by the HC, play continued on as normal from the POI, no fouls were assessed for the contact/pushing/shoving.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Once the athlete was removed from play, game management should have taken over and gotten her the medical attention that was required.

If a coach suspected a concussion, then he could ask for an on-site trainer (which you say was not present) or arrange for transportation to another location for proper evaluation via a parent or responsible adult (EMS/REMSA is probably not necessary).

Game officials try to stay out of medical matters as much as possible.

When I go in Saturday to work the Wrestling Invite & Boys' Games, I'll ask the AD if any medical attention for the player was sought. I'll just explain that I'm concerned, especially after reading the WIAA Online Rules Clinic & the information regarding the Lystedt Law concerning concussion management in interscholastic activities. I have a couple of Neurological disorders, & I have been told several times never to mess around with an injury to the head.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I'm questioning whether they should of moved the player, & not just called EMS to get her examined. It was the HC at her side as soon as the officials whistled for stoppage of play, who decided to get her up on her feet & assist her over to the bench.

Why are you questioning that? It's not your decision to make.
Are you aware that student-athletes all have to have parents/guardians sign medical release forms at the start of the season? Someone on that form is designated to act in the best interest of injured players. If the parents were in the stands, they could be consulted BY THE COACH. Everyone else besides trained medical personnel who are prepared to handle such matters should stay the heck out of it.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why are you questioning that? It's not your decision to make.
Are you aware that student-athletes all have to have parents/guardians sign medical release forms at the start of the season? Someone on that form is designated to act in the best interest of injured players. If the parents were in the stands, they could be consulted BY THE COACH. Everyone else besides trained medical personnel who are prepared to handle such matters should stay the heck out of it.

As I stated before, I have a couple of Neurological disorders, & I have been told several times never to mess around with an injury to the head, or when a loss of consciousness occurs.

As I stated earlier, I did not know of anyone there that was trained medical personnel. I did not see the proper precautions/procedures being put into action.

When I was Boys' Basketball Manager back in 1997-1998, I saw a similar play happen, with similar results. Only the player got shoved head first into wood bleachers.

I know of the medical release forms from participating in track in 8th grade.

When I was going through the area of the WIAA Online Rules Clinic dealing with concussions earlier, I couldn't stop thinking of the situation, of what should of/could of been done differently.

I cannot help if I am concerned about a person's well being/safety.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by chseagle

How I saw the play occur, the home player was in the air going for the rebound, when the visiting player made physical contact by pushing/shoving the home player OOB & into a padded wall. When the home player hit the padded wall, a loud thud was heard throughout the gym.

When the home player was finally mobile, & assisted to the bench by the HC, play continued on as normal from the POI, no fouls were assessed for the contact/pushing/shoving.

Why did you not call the foul?

You seem to be suffering from a guilty conscience more than anything. What do you expect people here to tell you? You seem to think you have some sort of responsibility for determining whether medical attention was necessary for this girl. So why didn't you do something? What is the answer you need to hear?

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

AllPurposeGamer,

Here in Washington State, there's a brand new law on the books called the Zackery Lystedt Law that has to deal with concussions in Interscholastic Athletics. Part of the law is that, if a concussion happens (losing consciousness or not), the student-athlete cannot practice nor participate in games until cleared by a medical professional that has the training to diagnosis & deal with concussions. The law was signed into effect by Gov. Gregoire this past summer.

How I saw the play occur, the home player was in the air going for the rebound, when the visiting player made physical contact by pushing/shoving the home player OOB & into a padded wall. When the home player hit the padded wall, a loud thud was heard throughout the gym.

I'm questioning whether they should of moved the player, & not just called EMS to get her examined. It was the HC at her side as soon as the officials whistled for stoppage of play, who decided to get her up on her feet & assist her over to the bench.

When the home player was finally mobile, & assisted to the bench by the HC, play continued on as normal from the POI, no fouls were assessed for the contact/pushing/shoving.

I understand that, but we as officials do not deal with injuries besides what we must by rule per NFHS. That means we'll stop play when appropriate (in this case, play would be stopped immediately). What happens after that is up to coach/trained personnel. The only decision as an official that has to be made is whether consciousness was lost or appeared to be lost. In that case, we aren't allowing the player back without a signed note from an M.D. You're asking the wrong people whether or not the correct procedures were followed.

[grunewar]

CHS - I'm with Smitty. I'm not sure what you want us to say/do.

I'll either call the foul or not. I'll clear the floor and send the players to their benches. I'll let the team and game mgt attend to the player. If they think EMS or an ambulance is needed, their call. If I think the player was unconscious I will inform coach of the rule. Clear the player off the floor by whatever means the team/medical feel is required. Secure a replacement player and get the game moving.

I am not taking charge of any medical situation nor giving advice. I do not play a doctor on tv and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

[APG]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Why did you not call the foul?

You seem to be suffering from a guilty conscience more than anything. What do you expect people here to tell you? You seem to think you have some sort of responsibility for determining whether medical attention was necessary for this girl. So why didn't you do something? What is the answer you need to hear?

I believe the OP is not an official.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I believe the OP is not an official.

Well that explains why they didn't call the foul.

I still don't know what they expect anyone here to say. The OP should be asking the school officials why they didn't call EMS.

[grunewar]

The OP is NOT an official. He works the table and is very curious, not in a bad way (IMO), as to what officials do, why they do it, etc.

My rub with the OP, and I get the feeling from some of the other posters too (although obviously I don't speak for them) is CHS doesn't seem to like or accept the answers he hears and continues question, pick, disagree, etc. Never seens satisfied with what is said.

Oh well, it's a free world and has made for some interesting banter from a slightly different angle. My $.02.