official causing problems

johnSandlin · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 13, 2004, 10:53am

Has anybody ever had a situation like this happen to them before? Here is what happen.

I was assigned to the 'R' position in a 3 man crew last Thursday night. Both of my partners are experienced 3 man crew officials, and experienced officials in general.

The game is flowing just beautifully. I am the 'C' position when I thought I heard the home coach call for a time out. I granted the time out. The coach informed me that he was not calling time out, but instead was trying to say something in response to what my U1 said to one of the assistant's on the way by.

The home team had just subed a new player into the game. One of the assistant coaches for the home team got off the bench to applaud to the player's efforts on the floor. The assistant coach was his way back to the end of the bench to sit down, when my U1 says something to the affect of "sit down coach, I am not going to tell you again, or I will ring you the next time."

After realizing the home coach did not want a time out, but just wanted to know why my U1 said that to the assistant for no reason at all. Now, I am telling this as the coach told me, and also my U1 backed up the coach's story. Both sets of coaches had been GREAT all night, and then my U1 appears to attempt to starting something that was not there.

I told my U1 after this situation happened to not say anything further to the home coach unless asked a question, or reporting a 5th foul to the bench because there was no need for what he did since neither bench was a problem at all throughout the whole game to that point, and neither bench was a problem the rest of the way.

To summarize this situation...what made the home coach upset was as this quoting him as he informed me of the situation during sorting out the time/or no time out call..."John, we have not said one to you guys all night long, and now to have U1(he mentioned the officials name to me though) say that, is totally uncalled for." I told the coach I understood his point and agreed with what he was saying, and assured the coach I would get to the bottom of the situation.

What would you have done differently/or the same?

[Edited by johnSandlin on Sep 13th, 2004 at 11:58 AM]

Jurassic Referee · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 13, 2004, 11:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by johnSandlin

The game is flowing just beautifully. I am the 'C' position when I thought I heard the home coach call for a time out. I granted the time out. The coach informed me that he was not calling time out, but instead was trying to say something in response to what my U1 said to one of the assistant's on the way by.

The home team had just subed a new player into the game. One of the assistant coaches for the home team got off the bench to applaud to the player's efforts on the floor. The assistant coach was his way back to the end of the bench to sit down, when my U1 says something to the affect of "sit down coach, I am not going to tell you again, or I will ring you the next time."

After realizing the home coach did not want a time out, but just wanted to know why my U1 said that to the assistant for no reason at all. Now, I am telling this as the coach told me, and also my U1 backed up the coach's story. Both sets of coaches had been GREAT all night, and then my U1 appears to attempt to starting something that was not there.

I told my U1 after this situation happened to not say anything further to the home coach unless asked a question, or reporting a 5th foul to the bench because there was no need for what he did since neither bench was a problem at all throughout the whole game to that point, and neither bench was a problem the rest of the way.

To summarize this situation...what made the home coach upset was as this quoting him as he informed me of the situation during sorting out the time/or no time out call..."John, we have not said one to you guys all night long, and now to have U1(he mentioned the officials name to me though) say that, is totally uncalled for." I told the coach I understood his point and agreed with what he was saying, and assured the coach I would get to the bottom of the situation.

What would you have done differently/or the same?

HOPEFULLY, I would have handled it as well as you did. There was no need to charge the coach with the TO if you aren't completely sure that he called it. And your U1 was way outa line. He was in direct contradiction of the rules, let alone not having very much in the way of common sense.

NFHS rule 10-5-2(c) specifically says that it's OK for an assistant coach to do what he did.

Kevzebra · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 13, 2004, 02:00pm

Sounds to me like some people can't stand not to call something during the game! I think you handled the situation well and the U1 needs to become more of a game manager. If things are going along nicely, why rock the boat? Maybe he/she just thought things were too quiet!

ChrisSportsFan · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 13, 2004, 02:39pm

I think we often-times get in enough trouble for what we didn't do, why go looking for it.

Different story, similar results. Without going into details to my assignor, I requested that he not pair me with that person again. I figure if the coach reported him, my request would back up coach without me having to say anything.

ref18 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 13, 2004, 09:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
I think we often-times get in enough trouble for what we didn't do, why go looking for it.

Different story, similar results. Without going into details to my assignor, I requested that he not pair me with that person again. I figure if the coach reported him, my request would back up coach without me having to say anything.

I think this is a great way of dealing with the situation. I just can't bring myself to say anything bad about another official, I feel that the possible ramifications are too great a risk. People talk, and eventually even if you meant good with your statement, your words may be twisted and it might come back to bite you.

In the situation I would've explained that the coach is allowed to stand in that situation to the official, maybe he just misunderstood the rule, or he might have had a bad day and was taking it out on whomever was closest (I know we've all done this as some point or other

) If it's a one time thing address it and move on, if it's recurring then it's turned into a problem and it must be dealt with.

Nevadaref · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 12:49am

Call a T on your partner and award each team 2FTs. Go POI for possession.

FrankHtown · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 08:35am

This brings up a pet peeve of mine. Give the time out calling back to the players. Hearing a "time out".... turning...making sure it's the head coach...turning back to make sure they are still holding or dribbling the ball in bounds....too much trouble. Let the coach signal the players, who usually are in front of you. Makes time out administration a lot easier, and avoids the "I thought I heard you call "Time Out"

ChrisSportsFan · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 08:45am

Sometimes coach is yelling "tie em up". Wow that's a tough one. I know it's D-coach but still.

How bout this coaches who stand up without saying anything and hold their fist up, expecting you to know what that means. Heck, many teams run a play called fist. (please do not interpret this any further than intended)

Adam · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 08:47am

I won't call it if I can't see coach saying it. I won't look if the play requires my full attention. I've never had a coach get mad about it taking me a few seconds to call a timeout. Normally, it doesn't take long for the players to recognize the situation and call the timeout.

johnSandlin · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 10:37am

Once I figured out what was really going on and what was really said by the head coach, I went with inadvertant whistle.

Give the ball back to the team who had possession prior to the whistle being blown, and we carried on with business after sorting out the U1's mess.

Adam · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 12:19pm

John,

How did U1 respond to the public admonishment?

ChuckElias · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by johnSandlin
What would you have done differently/or the same?

"Coach, I honestly don't know what happened. I'd guess that U1 heard something that he thought came from your assistant. I'll pass along that nothing was said and we'll forget it happened."

As far as scratching your partner, that seems a little extreme to me if this is the only incident that you've had with him. I agree with JR that he doesn't demonstrate much good sense in this situation, but maybe he had a fight with his wife and normally he's fine. If you have other reasons for scratching him, that's a different story.

Oz Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 05:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by FrankHtown
This brings up a pet peeve of mine. Give the time out calling back to the players. Hearing a "time out".... turning...making sure it's the head coach...turning back to make sure they are still holding or dribbling the ball in bounds....too much trouble. Let the coach signal the players, who usually are in front of you. Makes time out administration a lot easier, and avoids the "I thought I heard you call "Time Out"

That's where FIBA makes life easier - no time-outs from the floor. Can only be requested by the coach to the score bench, and then called after a whistle (or the opposing team makes a basket).

JRutledge · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 05:17pm

Oz,

Why does that make life easier? It is much easier to get a player to call timeout. At least in my opinion.

Peace

Camron Rust · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 14, 2004, 05:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Oz,

Why does that make life easier? It is much easier to get a player to call timeout. At least in my opinion.

Peace

If I understand it right....

The coach requests a timeout to the scorers table. The official is not even involved. The timeout can only be taken when the ball otherwise becomes dead. (A timeout request can not get granted during a live ball). When an official blows the whistle for a foul or violation, the scorer will indicate to the official that a timeout has been requested.

Since no timeout can be taken during a live ball, there is not need for the coach to communicate it to either his players or the officials.

That seems very easy to me.