Assistant Coach during V games

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

J51969, I have a question: are you saying that you intrude in the team time out to comment to the coach, or give instruction to "address little things?" I hope not. That 30 or 60 seconds it too often too brief as it is, and that's my time for me and my team. I'm not sharing it with a referee unless I only called the time out because we need a rest. All due respect, but if it's game tactics, coaches don't have time durring a time out to discuss anything with a referee. That's not why we take a timeout, and it's not the intent or purpose of a time out. No more than you would call an officials time out to discuss the play my team just ran with me. I would find the intrusion into my time out unnecessary and exceptionally irritating. We are often not ready at first buzzer, I need those 10 more seconds. As far as I'm concerned just make the call. Make the 3 second call on my player, make the illegal screen call on my player. That's how they will learn. In practice when I do have time, I can bring up the calls and make sure the player understands.

You're right coach. From now on, officials at your games should just call the technical the first time your AC stands up. No problem.

[Adam]

Coach, I think he's saying he uses the assistant coaches for this purpose. Personally, I don't do that. There aren't many things I approach a coach for, and lane camping and moving screens don't qualify. I'll talk to the players about those things, it's more effective.
I will, however, tell the assistant coach when the team has used their last TO. I don't want to interrupt the HC's time. I'll immediately take a moment to talk to a HC if a player is getting close to crossing the line and getting a T. If, somehow, we missed a player's Live Long and Prosper bracelet and see it as she heads to the bench, I'll tell the coach as I run by.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

J51969, I have a question: are you saying that you intrude in the team time out to comment to the coach, or give instruction to "address little things?" I hope not. That 30 or 60 seconds it too often too brief as it is, and that's my time for me and my team. I'm not sharing it with a referee unless I only called the time out because we need a rest. All due respect, but if it's game tactics, coaches don't have time durring a time out to discuss anything with a referee. That's not why we take a timeout, and it's not the intent or purpose of a time out. No more than you would call an officials time out to discuss the play my team just ran with me. I would find the intrusion into my time out unnecessary and exceptionally irritating. We are often not ready at first buzzer, I need those 10 more seconds. As far as I'm concerned just make the call. Make the 3 second call on my player, make the illegal screen call on my player. That's how they will learn. In practice when I do have time, I can bring up the calls and make sure the player understands.

When I was coaching at Jr High level, sometimes a referee would actually take a few seconds to explain to a kid what offensive 3 seconds in the lane is, or that a screen must be stationary, etc, etc. I realize it's my job to make sure my players understand how to play within the rules, but I appreciated when referee's took a moment to do that. I believe it's considerate to the bewildered kid who is clueless after the call, and that kind act aligns my own primary credo that it has to be about the kids first. But that's very different from intruding on a time out.

You did say, "used sparringly," so perhaps you use great discretion. I just though it important enough to say something. Because a new and impressionable referee could be reading this and think it's a good idea to just walk up and stick his nose into a team huddle and interrupt the coach. Bad idea.

If this is not what you were saying, or implying, I appologize.

The fact that this is lost on you is not surprising. I did say sparingly and offered a few possible situations. Not something I do on a regular basis, but would be lying if I said never have. How is this such a major intrusion. Assistants usually are on the outside looking in on a time-out anyway. They aren't in there running there mouth while the boss is doing his thing. You have completely missed my point and seemed offended that we as officials would anything other than a whistle to manage the game. Good luck with that attitude and philosphy.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by j51969

The fact that this is lost on you is not surprising. I did say sparingly and offered a few possible situations. Not something I do on a regular basis, but would be lying if I said never have. How is this such a major intrusion. Assistants usually are on the outside looking in on a time-out anyway. They aren't in there running there mouth while the boss is doing his thing. You have completely missed my point and seemed offended that we as officials would anything other than a whistle to manage the game. Good luck with that attitude and philosphy.

I think everyone needs to relax on this one. Coach thought you meant you talked to the HC about these things during the timeouts (a reasonable assumption since you didn't specify; but an incorrect assumption since this thread is about AssCs).

The bit in red above seems a bit gratuitous, IMO. And the part in blue is a non sequitur. It doesn't follow logically from what he wrote. Hell, he even offered the possibility that he misunderstood you.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chseagle

What I mean by "continually" is that the AC goes over to the table at a minimum once a quarter to look at the scorebook (either checking player performance or foul status).

The person handling the scorebook is great at letting the HC &/or AC know when someone is in foul trouble, or the timeouts left. During the Varsity games, the scoreboard/timer & scorebook are in constant communication with one another as to who shot the ball, who's got how many fouls, & AP.

Why I am asking for opinions &/or thoughts is that how I am reading/understanding the POE, the only time an AC is supposed to be standing up outside of the Coaches Box is when a timeout is called or coming on the floor for pregame or back from halftime.

Especially at the JV / C-level games you do, let it go. THere often aren't enough bodies on the bench to keep track of it there.

[j51969]

To imply that this is so egregious during at time-out is kind of ridiculous to me. That’s all...moving on

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Especially at the JV / C-level games you do, let it go. THere often aren't enough bodies on the bench to keep track of it there.

During the JV & C-Squad games, I only have to worry about the one coach. Periodically, the V Coach will check the JV Book for a player's playing status as they're also a V player. However, the V Coach normally is doing that at halftime, during timeouts, or after the final buzzer.

The AC is doing the scorebook check while ball is in play during the V games.

I'm just trying to properly interpret the POE.

[RookieDude]

bbcoach7...

I'm surprised nobody here has corrected your mistaken thought that you only have 10 seconds left after the 1st horn...

you in fact have 15 seconds left after the 1st horn on all timeouts and disqualifications.

60 second time out...horn sounds at the 45 second mark/with 15 seconds left

30 second time out...horn sounds at the 15 second mark/with 15 seconds left

DQ....horn sounds after 5 seconds with 15 seconds left

at least that's the way we do it around these parts.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

You're right coach. From now on, officials at your games should just call the technical the first time your AC stands up. No problem.

I was responding to a specific comment by j51969. Had nothing to do with assistants standing, or not standing. What I said was don't interrupt me durring a time out to discuss a 3 second call, or bad screening form. My impulse would be to ignore the intrusion, but I wouldn't do that because I'm a nice guy. Some other coaches probably would not be nice. Then we have a resentment, and possibly an antagonistic situation that should have never been that way just because some rook decided it was super important to give a coach instructions about a 3 second call.

A week ago my team was getting whipped (we are very young and not basketball smart yet) by a much better team. My asst kept standing up and hollering (at the team), then sit right back down. I was trying to keep it light, one of the referee's was directly in front of me (shooting free throws situation), and I saw him glance over at my assistant, so I told him, "do us both a favor and tell him to sit down and shut up." He thought that was pretty funny. Then I went and sat next to the asst and told him what I said. He was not as amussed, but did smile and did quiet down.

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think everyone needs to relax on this one. Coach thought you meant you talked to the HC about these things during the timeouts (a reasonable assumption since you didn't specify; but an incorrect assumption since this thread is about AssCs).

The bit in red above seems a bit gratuitous, IMO. And the part in blue is a non sequitur. It doesn't follow logically from what he wrote. Hell, he even offered the possibility that he misunderstood you.

as usual, you saw throught the situation and got the communication as was intended. I bet you're a damn good Referee too

[bbcoach7]

it's impossible to stick one's toe in a bowl of poo poo and not get some on you. So no way I'm coming away clean.

Originally Posted by j51969

The fact that this is lost on you is not surprising. I did say sparingly and offered a few possible situations. Not something I do on a regular basis, but would be lying if I said never have. How is this such a major intrusion. Assistants usually are on the outside looking in on a time-out anyway. They aren't in there running there mouth while the boss is doing his thing. You have completely missed my point and seemed offended that we as officials would anything other than a whistle to manage the game. Good luck with that attitude and philosphy.

First I must commend you Mr alpha numeric, for knowing me so intimately that you are not surprised that something is "lost on me." Your intuitive powers of deduction into the human psyche is phenomenal. Rarely... rarely I say, have I ever encountered anyone who is so adept and all knowing that he can read a post (maybe a few) and conclude so wisely. *sarcasm off*

I was an assistant, so please allow me to inform you what I would have done as an assistant had you come up to me to talk about either of the two examples you gave- 3 seconds, or illegal screen. No wait, I'm being overly generous. What you actually said was, "someone getting stalled in the lane, or a sketchy screen." I am not aware of either of those two violations. Maybe you can provide me some more of your insight with a rule book reference? I've never seen anyone drive their car into the lane and have it stall. Nor have I ever seen anyone bring a sketch pad onto the floor durring play to draw a screen. Just wondering, do you also report calls as "over the back," or "reaching in?" Hey, it's a reasonable question considering the "stalled" and "sketchy."

But I digress *sarcasm button back off* Basically I'd say nothing, do nothing with that information on screens and 3 seconds. I'd keep it to myself and not waste anyone elses time with it. There's nothing of value I could do with that information that I didn't already have/know before you related it to me. I was there. I heard the call. What do you suppose the asst would do? "Umm excuse me Coach (to HC), the Ref just wanted us to know that he made a 3 second call because Susie was in the lane for more than 3 seconds." You just wasted both of our time, but I wouldn't say that to you, or roll my eyes at you. In the moment, I would have said thank you to you, because that's the polite thing to do. Your intention was good. Perhaps a bit naive or missguided, but none the less good intent. Maybe later after the game for a laugh, I might have asked the HC if he saw the Ref talking to me and wanted to know what he told me.

These examples are entirely different from the types of information examples told to a coach (HC or Asst) that Snaqwells gave.

however, tell the assistant coach when the team has used their last TO. I don't want to interrupt the HC's time. I'll immediately take a moment to talk to a HC if a player is getting close to crossing the line and getting a T. If, somehow, we missed a player's Live Long and Prosper bracelet and see it as she heads to the bench, I'll tell the coach as I run by.

The intent here is also good. The difference is that this is intelligent information that can be used right now and is very much appreciated. As for the, "good luck with that attitude" comment, well I'm not a young kid anymore, and it's my experience that the advice we give to others is very often the exact message we need to take to heart for ourselves. I don't know you, but I suspect you may want to give that some thought unless you just don't care.

I happen to enjoy a very good relationship with the game officials in my area. I don't yell at referee's, I don't ride them, I don't even speak under my breath about them. I give them the respect they deserve because I know that each one of them is doing his or her best to make the calls as they see them. And that's all I can ask for. You come into my gym, and I welcome you and treat you with respect even if I know you're the guy who assumes to know me and doesn't have a clue about me. Not because you can "T" me, but because that's who I am, and it's about kids first. The example I set for the kids is more important to me than *****-ing about any call I think was missed.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I'm just trying to properly interpret the POE.

Your interpretation should be to ignore it, unless the actions are causing you to be unable to do your job.