situation opinions, delayed call

[fullor30]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not looking for validation in this case, just some clarity. In no way do I have a beef with partners nor do I think my choice in this case is philosophically absolute.

I'm C opposite table, shot goes up, bounces high off rim, it's in my peripheral as I'm watching action under basket. A1 rebounds and scores on a put back.

Can't recall why game was stopped as we are now going other way. B coach complains that ball hit wire above backboard. We huddle and of course lead saw nothing, but offers I think I heard something. Trail didn't see anything but said he heard something. I'm fifty/fifty but say, I'm not guessing, we made a call already and it was a no call, lets move on. Partners decide to give ball to B( defenders on play in question) and wipe points off board. No beefs from A coach

Partner in post game said it involved points and he wanted to get it right.

With that logic, if a player travels going to basket and scores and B coach insists it was a travel would we stop game and discuss the non call? Of course not. It was a judgement situation.

IMHO, the above could have been a gasoline can ready to explode. A coach having points taken off as a result of opposing coach complaing of a call or non call.

Some may see this differently. I'm not looking for why we missed it, as it might have very well hit the wire. Looking for thoughts on the late reversal of a non call.

[jdw3018]

I agree with you. If nobody saw it, and nobody is sure what happened, then score the basket and get the ball back in play.

If the complaining coach can't accept "you may be right, coach, but none of us saw it and we can't call it if we didn't see it," then you may have another call to make. But, I think worse is explaining to the other coach why you changed the call if nobody actually saw it.

[tjones1]

I would say that if Team A's coach didn't have a beef then you probably got it right. However, if I didn't see it there's no way I'm changing the orginal call.

[tomegun]

I hope you learn something from that experience. Keep it simple, that is BS.

What was the final score of the game?
What was the score at the time of this play?
Were you prepared to throw a coach out for this?

If I was the coach who had points taken off the board you might as well have called for security and you would have had to beat me to a phone to call your assigner. Six eyes and only two are fifty/fifty on the play. A classic example of what I was told several years ago: we should make errors of omission instead of errors of commission.

[Raymond]

I, personally, would have let the basket stand. Basically, your crew, when asked to explain the call the crew would have to say "we didn't see it, but we heard something." I prefer to go with "We might have missed it Coach; but none of us saw it hit anything so the basket stands."

I had a play one time in a 3-man crew. I'm Trail tableside in front of V-HC. H1 takes a 3-pointer from the C's (opposite table) corner. I look into the paint for rebounding action and look back up and see the ball is descending at a funny angle on the C's side of the backboard (and depth-wise, behind the backboard). Apparently the ball hit the pole at the edge of and behind the backboard. However I did not see it and the C did not see it either as he was bringing the shooter "up and down". The V-HC saw it and kind of made a stink about it (as did his father (AD and former official on our board) in the stands). I just explained to V-HC that I did not see the ball hit anything so I could not call the violation. I don't doubt at all the ball hit the pole based on how the ball was descending but I'm not calling that if I don't see it.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I hope you learn something from that experience. Keep it simple, that is BS.

What was the final score of the game?
What was the score at the time of this play?
Were you prepared to throw a coach out for this?

If I was the coach who had points taken off the board you might as well have called for security and you would have had to beat me to a phone to call your assigner. Six eyes and only two are fifty/fifty on the play. A classic example of what I was told several years ago: we should make errors of omission instead of errors of commission.

I've missed my share of calls and will continue to do so before I hang it up, but to me it's not good game management in this situation. I'll go so far as to say that if we all saw it and didn't call it, too late, we're moving on.

Team who had points taken off was up by 8-9. They won game comfortably by 10.

Never thought of coach repercussions at the time. Filed away.....

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I've missed my share of calls and will continue to do so before I hang it up, but to me it's not good game management in this situation. I'll go so far as to say that if we all saw it and didn't call it, too late, we're moving on.

Team who had points taken off was up by 8-9. They won game comfortably by 10.

Never thought of coach repercussions at the time. Filed away.....

Did you call your assigner about this play? Even if the coach won by 10 points, you may be risking it by not telling the assigner. IMO this is a situation where you don't want your assigner blind-sided by a phone call from the coach.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I, personally, would have let the basket stand. Basically, your crew, when asked to explain the call the crew would have to say "we didn't see it, but we heard something." I prefer to go with "We might have missed it Coach; but none of us saw it hit anything so the basket stands."

I had a play one time in a 3-man crew. I'm Trail tableside in front of V-HC. H1 takes a 3-pointer from the C's (opposite table) corner. I look into the paint for rebounding action and look back up and see the ball is descending at a funny angle on the C's side of the backboard (and depth-wise, behind the backboard). Apparently the ball hit the pole at the edge of and behind the backboard. However I did not see it and the C did not see it either as he was bringing the shooter "up and down". The V-HC saw it and kind of made a stink about it (as did his father (AD and former official on our board) in the stands). I just explained to V-HC that I did not see the ball hit anything so I could not call the violation. I don't doubt at all the ball hit the pole based on how the ball was descending but I'm not calling that if I don't see it.

Good point. When reversing non call and explaining to A coach your rationale, you lose both ways "we heard something" or "it hit the wire coach" in the latter, it opens a can of worms "if you say it hit the wire why didn't anyone blow their whistle?"

I'd rather take heat for missing the call, which to me is more palatable to a coach than trying to explain the above.

Again, within the game it wasn't a big deal. I may use this in my pregame in the future.

[Back In The Saddle]

How do you replace didn't see it with maybe it happened and call that "getting it right"? :baffled:

[fullor30]

[QUOTE=Back In The Saddle;641721]How do you replace didn't see it with maybe it happened and call that "getting it right"? :baffled:



You're preaching to the choir.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Did you call your assigner about this play? Even if the coach won by 10 points, you may be risking it by not telling the assigner. IMO this is a situation where you don't want your assigner blind-sided by a phone call from the coach.

Tight knit little group on these games. Assignor not an issue. Politically best to let it rest.

Coach a non factor also.


Really just looking for thoughts going forward on this, both partners are very good officials.

Had something similar a few years ago. Free throw and I'm lead, shot misses, bounces high and is rebounded and fumbled out of bounds by A2. Just before I give ball to B(A) now going other way, trail comes running in and tells us coach said it hit the wiring, both of us look at him and say let's go........

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Tight knit little group on these games. Assignor not an issue. Politically best to let it rest.

Coach a non factor also.


Really just looking for thoughts going forward on this, both partners are very good officials.

I will take your word for it...but:

1. Politics shouldn't have anything to do with it. This is still communication about something that happened in your game.
2. It doesn't matter how good your partners are. If they are so good, why did they let this happen?

Since this is a public forum many of us should probably take the approach that our assigner would need to know something about this before he or she hears it from the coach. If your situation is different so be it.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I will take your word for it...but:

1. Politics shouldn't have anything to do with it. This is still communication about something that happened in your game.
2. It doesn't matter how good your partners are. If they are so good, why did they let this happen?

Since this is a public forum many of us should probably take the approach that our assigner would need to know something about this before he or she hears it from the coach. If your situation is different so be it.

Thanks for your comments...........

[Ignats75]

I really don't like the way this was handled in the OP. What if the coach was trying to pull a fast one? Now you lost all cred w him

[RookieDude]

...during your pregame, instead of just standing out there looking pretty, check out some things.

One of the things you can look at is how the wire, that hangs down in front of the backboard, reacts when a shot is taken. (if there is a wire of course)

Many times this wire "wiggles" after a shot hits the rim. I've seen shots hit the rim, bounce up, and then go in...as we all have...but, I've also heard coaches say that the ball hit the wire...when if fact, all that happen was the vibration from the shot made the wire "wiggle".

Therefore, I would not take much creed in a coach telling me if the ball hit the wire...the crew needs to be the ones who make this decision...if they missed it, they missed it.