Your call?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Lets try this: What do you have if the dribbler - dribbles into the defensive player while the defensive player and the dribbler are at close to or full speed at mid-court? Both bodies hit the floor.

Two bodies hitting the floor and probably a loose ball.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Lets try this: What do you have if the dribbler - dribbles into the defensive player while the defensive player and the dribbler are at close to or full speed at mid-court? Both bodies hit the floor.

Who got to the spot of the collision first?

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Lets try this: What do you have if the dribbler - dribbles into the defensive player while the defensive player and the dribbler are at close to or full speed at mid-court? Both bodies hit the floor.

Tough one but probably nothing. Defense wasn't in LGP but also didn't CAUSE the contact so how can we penalize him. If there's any kind of elbow/arm extension or lowering of the shoulder and the defensive player is displaced I could see a PC foul. Otherwise, prob like Nevada said "Two bodies hitting the floor and probably a loose ball."

[Adam]

I see this as potentially applicable to screening rules, depending on a few details. If neither path was adjusted at the last second, then I've got the defense responsible for contact if he wasn't able to establish LGP. If the dribbler adjusts his path at the last second to get in the way of the defender and draw contact, the dribbler is responsible for not giving proper time and distance.

With both bodies on the floor, I'd be hard pressed to stick with a no-call in this situation. I'm okay with a no-call when the only player on the floor is the one responsible for the contact, but that's not the case when both go down.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see this as potentially applicable to screening rules, depending on a few details. If neither path was adjusted at the last second, then I've got the defense responsible for contact if he wasn't able to establish LGP. If the dribbler adjusts his path at the last second to get in the way of the defender and draw contact, the dribbler is responsible for not giving proper time and distance.

With both bodies on the floor, I'd be hard pressed to stick with a no-call in this situation. I'm okay with a no-call when the only player on the floor is the one responsible for the contact, but that's not the case when both go down.

Agreed, I can see in rare occasions where a no call could be plausible. More times than not someone was a fault for the contact

[Adam]

I've had no-calls with two bodies on the floor, but that's always been a loose ball situation. When a dribbler or shooter is involved, no way. Well, it would be a unique situation.

[tomegun]

I'm picturing a play were A1 deliberately dribbles into the path of B1. I can understand the thinking that there must be a call when two bodies hit the floor, but the question must be asked: what did the defender do? If the defender is moving in a path and the offensive player changes his or her path, should the defender apply the air brakes, beam himself or herself to another spot or wiggle his or her nose to vanish?

a) foul on A1
b) foul on B1
c) no call

I would be hard pressed to go with a or b.

[tjchamp]

In MN, we apply the concept of impede/displace. Since B1 did not have legal guarding position, he was impeding the progress of A1. Therefore, push on B1.

[offici88]

Originally Posted by tjchamp

In MN, we apply the concept of impede/displace. Since B1 did not have legal guarding position, he was impeding the progress of A1. Therefore, push on B1.

I'd apply the same logic, based on what other veterans have shared with me. Wisconsin wants a call when bodies are on the floor like this situation.

[Johnny Ringo]

Come on guys ... you have never seen this? A1 dribbles into the path or in front of B1 (possibly stops, but still dribbling) and they crash.

You calling a foul on A1? A1 did initiate the contact, but B1 was not in LGP.

See the play in your head ... what do you have?

Nevada, I know your good - what's your call?

[chartrusepengui]

who reached the spot legally first? answer that and you have your answer.

time and distance are not required when guarding an individual with the ball - so why would you give B1 special consideration even if A did "cut them off". A still legally reached that spot ahead of B and is entitled to it without being knocked to the floor.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

who reached the spot legally first? answer that and you have your answer.

time and distance are not required when guarding an individual with the ball - so why would you give B1 special consideration even if A did "cut them off". A still legally reached that spot ahead of B and is entitled to it without being knocked to the floor.

Consider this: A1 an B1 collide. B1 never had a legal guarding position because they were guarding A2 near by. Why would it make a difference if B1 was actively engaged with another player, or just standing there. Considering the contact resulted on both you may have nothing. Basketball is a contact sport not a collision sport. This certainly happens more often in the girls game than boys.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

who reached the spot legally first? answer that and you have your answer.

time and distance are not required when guarding an individual with the ball - so why would you give B1 special consideration even if A did "cut them off". A still legally reached that spot ahead of B and is entitled to it without being knocked to the floor.

You're right, if A1 gets there first. I'm seeing the same play tomegun sees; neither player is there first and A1 clearly initiated the contact by veering into B1's path.

[chartrusepengui]

I guess I was envisioning that A1 was at the spot first and then banged from behind by B1

[Johnny Ringo]

Originally Posted by j51969

Consider this: A1 an B1 collide. B1 never had a legal guarding position because they were guarding A2 near by. Why would it make a difference if B1 was actively engaged with another player, or just standing there. Considering the contact resulted on both you may have nothing. Basketball is a contact sport not a collision sport. This certainly happens more often in the girls game than boys.

This is not the play (see above).

A1 dribbles into the path of where B1 appeared to be running. A1 stops (may have even initiated the contact - (much like offensive player driving to the basket) B1 can't stop and hits A1 ... you have to have a call. Do you call PC on A1 or push on B1?

I know you have all seen this play where the point guard dribbles into the defensive player while running up the floor. But, in this case there is a crash!