Question on inbounding/backcourt violation

[GTJT622]

Team A has ball on their frontcourt baseline. Player A1 throws the ball out towards midcourt towards Player A2. A2 is still in frontcourt. A2 reaches out to catch the pass and the ball tips her fingertip and bounces into the backcourt. A2 quickly retrieves the ball in backcourt. The referee called a backcourt (over and back) violation. I thought the Team A had to establish possession first for that to be a violation on an inbound play in the front court which they clearly had not. Is the ref correct in his call of over-and-back? Thanks for guidance in advance. Great forum!!

[jdw3018]

If the ball was never controlled inbounds (and it sounds like it wasn't from your description), then team control was never established and therefore a backcourt violation couldn't have occurred.

[buckrog64]

If I have this correct, no team control exists during the throw-in (4-12-6). The thrown in ends when touched by a player (4-42-5). Presumably that means you then have team control, which was established in the front court. A was the last to touch in the FC, and first to touch it in the BC, thus you have a violation.

[tjones1]

The official was incorrect in this situation. No violation.

You are correct. Must establish control, be the last to touch it in the frontcourt, and the first to touch it in the backcourt.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

If I have this correct, no team control exists during the throw-in (4-12-6). The thrown in ends when touched by a player (4-42-5). Presumably that means you then have team control, which was established in the front court. A was the last to touch in the FC, and first to touch it in the BC, thus you have a violation.

Not correct.

You were correct that the throw in ended when it was touched. However, that doesn't mean that team control has been established. In order to establish team control, a player must establish player control. The tap is not player control, therefore there is no team control until the player goes into the backcourt and gathers the ball.

There is never team control during a throw in, but there may or may not be team control after a throw in.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

If I have this correct, no team control exists during the throw-in (4-12-6). The thrown in ends when touched by a player (4-42-5). Presumably that means you then have team control, which was established in the front court. A was the last to touch in the FC, and first to touch it in the BC, thus you have a violation.

Incorrect. Check out 4-12-5.

4-12-5
Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but it re-established when a player secures control.

With that said, check out 4-12-1.

[buckrog64]

Thanks for clarifying. I knew I was missing something somewhere.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by GTJT622

Team A has ball on their frontcourt baseline.

Also remember it's endline. Baselines are in baseball, not basketball.

Over they yrs, you guys have brainwashed me.....

Using proper terminology is important when explaining rules....I continue to work at it.

[BillyMac]

Baselines are in baseball, not basketball. © 2009 grunewar

[dbking]

There is one caveat to this rule:

If a defender touches the ball first, the throw in ends and ball has front court status. Then A2 deflects ball while in front court and then goes and retrieves the ball in back court. This is a violation because the exclusion on the team control ends when the defender touches the ball.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by dbking

There is one caveat to this rule:

If a defender touches the ball first, the throw in ends and ball has front court status. Then A2 deflects ball while in front court and then goes and retrieves the ball in back court. This is a violation because the exclusion on the team control ends when the defender touches the ball.

I disagree.

It's true that the throw-in has ended - and yes, there's no team control during a throw-in. However, just because the throw-in has ended doesn't mean team control has been re-established.

Therefore, in your post, when did Team A establish team control?

Check out post #6 for references as to when a team re-establishes team control.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by dbking

There is one caveat to this rule:

If a defender touches the ball first, the throw in ends and ball has front court status. Then A2 deflects ball while in front court and then goes and retrieves the ball in back court. This is a violation because the exclusion on the team control ends when the defender touches the ball.

Wrong. If the ball is simply deflected by A2, there is no team/player control established in the frontcourt. Just like a try for goal that deflects off of B1, then A1, then goes in the backcourt. It can be retrieved by A with no violation.

You're thinking of the one where someone from Team B deflects it, then A2 jumps from frontcourt to backcourt and catches it in the air and lands. That is a violation.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by dbking

There is one caveat to this rule:

If a defender touches the ball first, the throw in ends and ball has front court status. Then A2 deflects ball while in front court and then goes and retrieves the ball in back court. This is a violation because the exclusion on the team control ends when the defender touches the ball.

Either team touching the throw-in ends the throw-in. Neither team touching the throw-in grants team control.