No sub for fouled out player

[Loudwhistle]

At a recent game, player receives their fifth foul and we are shooting two. Does the fouled out player have to wait for the completion of the first free throw before they leave the floor and sit on the bench? ( no sub was available)

[APG]

You have the player replaced as soon as your notified of their fifth foul. You don't have to wait till the first free throw is completed to do this.

[zm1283]

Replace the DQ'd player, bring in any other subs that want to check in, and then shoot the free throws.

[Back In The Saddle]

Ideally (some scorekeepers seem to require 3-5 business days to notify you of a player's fifth foul) your first order of business after reporting the foul is the notify the player's coach, then notify the player, then instruct the timer to begin the 20 second timer. You do not shoot free throws until the player is replaced. You do not grant any time out requests until the player is replaced. Any other subs that are waiting to come in when the replacement enters, may enter as well.

Non-ideally, all the above is still true, but you do it as soon as the scorekeeper finally notifies you of the player's 5th foul. There is no penalty for the player continuing to play if the scorekeeper has failed to notify the officials that the player is disqualified.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Ideally (some scorekeepers seem to require 3-5 business days to notify you of a player's fifth foul) your first order of business after reporting the foul is the notify the player's coach, then notify the player, then instruct the timer to begin the 20 second timer. You do not shoot free throws until the player is replaced. You do not grant any time out requests until the player is replaced. Any other subs that are waiting to come in when the replacement enters, may enter as well.

I had a player foul out on Sat and was going about my business as above and was told by my evaluator/trainer my first order of business once I was notified was is to inform my partners - then the coach. I kinda like that. Thoughts?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I had a player foul out on Sat and was going about my business as above and was told by my evaluator/trainer my first order of business once I was notified was is to inform my partners - then the coach. I kinda like that. Thoughts?

That's how I do it. Turn to my partners, verbally and manually indicate 5 fouls, then notify the coach.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I had a player foul out on Sat and was going about my business as above and was told by my evaluator/trainer my first order of business once I was notified was is to inform my partners - then the coach. I kinda like that. Thoughts?

Absolutely. Otherwise, they are likely to go ahead an administer the FT while you are getting the replacement player.

And, be sure they receive the message. It's too easy to tell them that it's 5 fouls, and to have them look right at you while you are doing it, and still have them not receive the message (they are thinking about getting players lined up for FTs, etc). I speak from experience on this.

On the slow scorekeepers -- near the end of the game, take a little extra time at the table after reporting the foul to see if it's the player's fifth foul.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Ideally (some scorekeepers seem to require 3-5 business days to notify you of a player's fifth foul) your first order of business after reporting the foul is the notify the player's coach, then notify the player, then instruct the timer to begin the 20 second timer.

I don't have my books in front of me, but I thought it was notify the coach, instruct the timer to begin the 20 second timer, and then notify the player.

Am I wrong?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I don't have my books in front of me, but I thought it was notify the coach, instruct the timer to begin the 20 second timer, and then notify the player.

Am I wrong?

You are correct.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Just remembered all the books are now online. From page 37 of the officials manual:

The non-calling official shall notify the coach and request the timer to
begin the replacement interval, and then notify the disqualified player.

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Just remembered all the books are now online. From page 37 of the officials manual:

The non-calling official shall notify the coach and request the timer to
begin the replacement interval, and then notify the disqualified player.

And none of that does any good if you don't inform your partners, and they're shooting free-throws while you're waiting on a sub.

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

At a recent game, player receives their fifth foul and we are shooting two. Does the fouled out player have to wait for the completion of the first free throw before they leave the floor and sit on the bench? ( no sub was available)

Hmmm...I think we lost track of the OP with all of our responses. Do you mean that there was no sub available at all or there wasn't anyone reported or??? I think everyone went off and answered without the full details.

[Back In The Saddle]

Sorry, forgot about partners. Yes, you are going to alert them so they don't start shooting free throws. And, in fact, you have the option of having one of your partners handle notifying the coach, etc.

But either way, if the crew is working like it should, getting signals before each free throw, etc. they'll see that you're taking care of some business and will hold the free throw administration until you are ready.

And W&S is correct. Apart from communicating with your crew it is notify the coach, time keeper, player.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Hmmm...I think we lost track of the OP with all of our responses. Do you mean that there was no sub available at all or there wasn't anyone reported or??? I think everyone went off and answered without the full details.

I had read the OP to mean that there were no eligible substitutes that could replace the DQ'd player, and they'd have to continue with four. But I don't believe it matters which way you read it, the answer is still the same. Once the official is notified that the player has five fouls, we do not continue the game until we've taken care of all the proper notifications and the DQ'd player leaves the game. Normally that means a sub replaces him, but if the team is out of subs, you go on with fewer than five.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I had a player foul out on Sat and was going about my business as above and was told by my evaluator/trainer my first order of business once I was notified was is to inform my partners - then the coach. I kinda like that. Thoughts?

MY thoughts,

I believe this is a additional preference. Normally, when players have reached the foul limit; the table will sound the horn and put up his/her hand letting you know that the player has be DQ'ed. This is why its stated that the non-calling official notify the coach, instruct the timer to start the replacement clock and inform the player.

We normally go through the process because we reported the foul and is close to the table when notified.

If we do like the book guide us then all officials will be informed and no need to inform my partners; coach; table and player.

End of thoughts.