A Player who fouled out still playing.....

[dsimp8]

My partner and I had a game the other night that went into double OT. Hostile crowd and hostile benches....controlled but hostile. #3 for Team A fouled out near the end of the 1st OT. We had already had 3 kids on each team foul out. Starting the 2nd OT,Team A got the tip and took it down and scored. Team B is bring the ball up the floor and i noticed #3 from Team A on the court. At first,I tried to cycle through the fouled out players in my mind and I thought I remember my partner calling the foul on him at the end of the 1st OT. I did not know he had fouled out since I was getting the lane readied for a FT. I waited until a dead ball,then went to the table to check the book. I called my partner over (he was the Referee) and we saw that he had fouled out. The coach explained to us that he was not told he had fouled out. My partner then explained that he was sent to the bench anh the coach had to send a replacement in for him.

Needless to say,my partner said we were going to shoot two technical FTs and Team B would take the ball out. I wondered about this all the way home wondering if that was the right penalty>Was it right?

[Redhouse]

The procedure may vary from state to state on exactly who informs the coach of the disqualified player.

After the foul is reported and the table notifies you that is the players 5th foul one of the officials, most of the time the non calling official will inform the coach that #3 has 5 fould and is DQ.

You should tell the coach that they have 30 seconds to get a sub in. Go ask that the table start a 30 second count and give you a warning horn at 20 sec and then the second horn at 30 sec.

Then go notify the player that they have fouled out.

If no sub is ready after 30 seconds, T.

If the coach was not properly notified that the player had fouled out there is no penaly, just remove the player from the game. If the coach was notified properly then it is a T.

[thumpferee]

Sounds right to me!

Rule 4-14.2

Was notification given to the coach?

If so: 10-6.2 would apply

Also see Case Play 10.5.3 Sit (hmm, did they leave out the 2 and C?)

Anyway, direct to HC if disqualified player was discovered after the ball became live.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by dsimp8
My partner and I had a game the other night that went into double OT. Hostile crowd and hostile benches....controlled but hostile. #3 for Team A fouled out near the end of the 1st OT. We had already had 3 kids on each team foul out. Starting the 2nd OT,Team A got the tip and took it down and scored. Team B is bring the ball up the floor and i noticed #3 from Team A on the court. At first,I tried to cycle through the fouled out players in my mind and I thought I remember my partner calling the foul on him at the end of the 1st OT. I did not know he had fouled out since I was getting the lane readied for a FT. I waited until a dead ball,then went to the table to check the book. I called my partner over (he was the Referee) and we saw that he had fouled out. The coach explained to us that he was not told he had fouled out. My partner then explained that he was sent to the bench anh the coach had to send a replacement in for him.

Needless to say,my partner said we were going to shoot two technical FTs and Team B would take the ball out. I wondered about this all the way home wondering if that was the right penalty>Was it right?

When a player is assessed his 5th foul were you made aware of it from the table? Did you inform the player and the coach or did the coach just sub for him?

[dsimp8]

I asked my partner after the game and he said that when he went to report the foul, the official scorer held up five fingers. He then said that he said to the coach,"Coach that's 5 on #3. " There was also a sub(according to my partner) at the table who was coming in(he had been subbing for #3 and the other guard throughout the game),maybe the coach wasn't listening when he heard my partner say that.I did see him(coach) motion to the player already at the table to go in.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I've had coaches whose tactic was to ignore me at this time. I'm at the table reporting the foul and the coach knows it is the 5th on a particular player so he goes to the far end of the bench and looks the other way.

[Edited by DownTownTonyBrown on Jan 26th, 2005 at 05:46 PM]

[Nevadaref]

It is a duty of the officials to remove this player:
2-8-3 . . . Remove a player from the game who commits his/her fifth foul (personal and technical).

The coach must be informed for the player to officially be disqualified:
2-8-4 . . . Notify the coach and request the timer to begin the replacement interval, and then notify the player on a disqualification.
4-14-2 . . . A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel when the coach is notified by an official.

You stated that your partner did tell the coach.
If you hadn't told the coach or the scorer hadn't notified the officials, then use 2-11-11 NOTE 2:

The procedure if a player who has committed his/her fifth foul continues to play because the scorer has failed to notify the official is as follows: As soon as the scorer discovers the irregularity, the game horn should be sounded after, or as soon as, the ball is in control of the offending team or is dead. The disqualified player must be removed immediately. Any points which may have been scored while such player was illegally in the game are counted. If other aspects of the error are correctable, the procedure to be followed is included among the duties of the officials.

Since the official did inform the coach, invoke 10-5-3: . . . The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate after being removed from the game for disqualification.

PENALTY: (Art. 3) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is charged directly to the head coach. Penalized if discovered while being violated.

The case book play 10.5.3 tells you the same thing.

Unfortunately, I believe that you cannot cancel any points scored by the DQ'd player or his team during the time that he was illegally in the game. 10.1.8 just doesn't apply to this situation.