Player Control and count the basket, NFHS?

[jritchie]

Big discussion last night at the local meeting. A1 going in for layup, releases the ball, B1 set in legal guarding position under basket in plenty of time, B2 goaltends A1's shot: a: before A1 crashes into B1 for the player control foul, b: after A1 crashes into B1 for the player control foul.

Our leader of the group was trying to say the basket counts either situation, but if you go by when the ball is dead 6-7-4, there is no way to count it in situation b, because the ball is now dead.

I first thought he was crazy in both situations, but after looking into the first one, I came to the conclusion the offensive team can get an awarded basket because of the violation before the player control foul and that can't be ignored. Was a good discussion.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by jritchie

Big discussion last night at the local meeting. A1 going in for layup, releases the ball, B1 set in legal guarding position under basket in plenty of time, B2 goaltends A1's shot: a: before A1 crashes into B1 for the player control foul, b: after A1 crashes into B1 for the player control foul.

Our leader of the group was trying to say the basket counts either situation, but if you go by when the ball is dead 6-7-4, there is no way to count it in situation b, because the ball is now dead.

I first thought he was crazy in both situations, but after looking into the first one, I came to the conclusion the offensive team can get an awarded basket because of the violation before the player control foul and that can't be ignored. Was a good discussion.

If the goal tended occurred before the crash (A) the basket would count. In B, the basket would not count.

-Josh

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jritchie

big discussion last night at the local meeting. A1 going in for layup, releases the ball, b1 set in legal guarding position under basket in plenty of time, b2 goaltends a1's shot: A: Before a1 crashes into b1 for the player control foul, b: After a1 crashes into b1 for the player control foul.

Our leader of the group was trying to say the basket counts either situation, but if you go by when the ball is dead 6-7-4, there is no way to count it in situation b, because the ball is now dead.

I first thought he was crazy in both situations, but after looking into the first one, i came to the conclusion the offensive team can get an awarded basket because of the violation before the player control foul and that can't be ignored. Was a good discussion.

4.19.6

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by jritchie

Big discussion last night at the local meeting. A1 going in for layup, releases the ball, B1 set in legal guarding position under basket in plenty of time, B2 goaltends A1's shot: a: before A1 crashes into B1 for the player control foul, b: after A1 crashes into B1 for the player control foul.

Our leader of the group was trying to say the basket counts either situation, but if you go by when the ball is dead 6-7-4, there is no way to count it in situation b, because the ball is now dead.

I first thought he was crazy in both situations, but after looking into the first one, I came to the conclusion the offensive team can get an awarded basket because of the violation before the player control foul and that can't be ignored. Was a good discussion.

There is a play in the case book dealing with that.....dont have my book, but I remember it.....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

4.19.6

4.19.6 SITUATION A: B1 obtains a legal position in A1’s path before A becomes airborne. A1 jumps and releases the ball on a try for goal. Before returning to the floor, airborne shooter A1 charges into B1. (a) Before the foul by A1, B2 commits basket interference; or (b) after the foul on A1, B2 slaps the ball on its downward flight. RULING: In (a), both the violation and the foul are penalized. The basket interference by B2 causes the ball to become dead immediately. The violation is penalized by awarding the two points. The player-control foul on A1 is also charged. Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in anywhere along the end line. A defensive-goaltending or basket-interference violation committed prior to a player-control foul does not contradict the general statement that when a playercontrol foul occurs that player cannot score. In the case of a defensive violation, it is the violation which results in awarding the score. In (b), the ball becomes dead and the try ends immediately when the player-control foul on A1 occurs. The action of B2 is ignored as goaltending cannot occur after the try has ended. The ball is awarded to Team B for a throw-in from a designated spot out of bounds closest to where the foul occurred. (4-12-1; 6-7-4; 6-7-9 Exception; 7-5-4a; 9-11)

[hoopguy]

As a Celtics fan, I get a bang out of Kevin Garnett never letting the opponent score on a practice shot after a whistle causes the play to become dead. He always 'goaltends' the practice shot.

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

As a Celtics fan, I get a bang out of Kevin Garnett never letting the opponent score on a practice shot after a whistle causes the play to become dead. He always 'goaltends' the practice shot.

This is an interesting situation in the "lower" levels. Who thinks this is okay to do? I'm thinking that this needs to be addressed if it is happening in a high school or college game (emulating their idols). Saying something along the lines of "When you are playing for the Boston Celtics then this will be legal"

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

This is an interesting situation in the "lower" levels. Who thinks this is okay to do?

I do, mainly because I know of no rule prohibiting it.

I'd be after the shooter instead, for not passing the ball directly to an official in accordance with 10-3-5b.

[All_Heart]

Usually it is a player that is fouled right before he/she is in the act of shooting but the officials whistle is a tad slow so they actually do start their motion and continue and shoot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

Usually it is a player that is fouled right before he/she is in the act of shooting but the officials whistle is a tad slow so they actually do start their motion and continue and shoot.

Then why penalize a different (or even the same player) for playing through the whistle when they think the shot may or may not count?

If the foul is that close to being a shooting foul, don't penalize them for this.

If the foul is so much before the shooting motion that everyone knows it's just a "practice shot," then that's what the player gets for shooting a dead ball. He can take his practice shots after the game is over.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I do, mainly because I know of no rule prohibiting it.

I'd be after the shooter instead, for not passing the ball directly to an official in accordance with 10-3-5b.

Yep. My standard admonishment is, "Hey, practice on your own time."

[Texas Aggie]

The basket interference by B2 causes the ball to become dead immediately. The violation is penalized by awarding the two points. The player-control foul on A1 is also charged.

If the ball is dead, and the contact is not intentional or flagrant, how can the foul be committed?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

If the ball is dead, and the contact is not intentional or flagrant, how can the foul be committed?

Check out the airborne shooter section under Rule 4.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

If the ball is dead, and the contact is not intentional or flagrant, how can the foul be committed?

There are additional ways a personal foul can be committed with a dead ball. See 4-1, especially the Note.