Letter to Big South Commish regarding Joe Forte

[ncaambbref]

Originally Posted by tjohnson65

...you mention that personal attacks on you do not change the facts. Funny thing is that you offer no facts. Only your clearly biased opinion.

Facts:

* Forte sent out an email to staffers requesting the names of those who were working the lockout. (I doubt that ANY other coordinator did this)

* No one working the lockout received games this year even though they received games last year.

* Some lockout refs requested to miss the Big South clinic and were granted permission.

* Forte is a convicted felon for tax evasion - disputes the integrity claim.

* Forte served his time by being on HOME INCARCERATION for several months.

* The NBA grants Forte permission to be a supervisor in the first place - outside employment MUST be approved.

* The Big South has contacted several affected officials in THEIR investigation PRIOR to this thread!

Those are the FACTS!!!

[ncaambbref]

I never said that Joe was not a good official...which he clearly is. He is historic as a matter of fact in a very good way. But he has exercised POOR judgment in how he is treating a certain group of officials due to his personal bias.

Joe clearly knows this thread is going on, so why doesn't he come on here and clear the air? Since I have no balls according to some, where are his? He knows what he has done and he knows it is wrong...no matter how he tries to defend his actions.

[bb_ref]

FACTS:

1. Actually, many coordinators did what you allege Joe did. Some instituted a drop dead date by which the officials had to chose the NBA or NCAA. In the emails you reference, he also asked every one of them for their closed dates so he could work around their dates, but guess what, they don't know their availability yet because the NBA has not assigned the regular season! What assignor do you know allows an official to not know his availability and assigns games to him anyway??

2. They are independent contractors and are not guaranteed games day to day, let alone season to season. So what they received last year means absolutely nothing.

3. They don't need to be granted permission to not attend his clinic. They are independent contractors and can do what they please. However they made a choice not to attend while others sacrificed their time to be there and showed a commitment to the big south.

4. Joe Forte's past has absolutely nothing to do with this and for you to drag that out is irresponsible and childish. Referring to the irrelevant past is what one does when his argument lacks credibility. Joe Forte has more integrity than anyone that would post anonymously on a message board and attack his character and try to jeopardize what he's worked 20+ years to establish.

You obviously have no clue what Joe has done for young officials OR you're not will to acknowledge it because it kills your argument against him. Joe has multiple camps a summer where he hardly charges any money. He stays in the gym everyday at those camps all day long working with young officials. He WORKS with them. He doesn't walk around for 30 mins like some supervisors and leave. He is there for the first game in the morning and leaves the last game at night. He has had nba management to his camps to get young officials a look. He has always worked hard to get young officials as many games as possible and help them advance. Everyone knows how much Joe helps young officials.

It's a shame that someone like yourself who obviously knows the sacrifices officials have to make would try to bring down someone who has given back so much to officiating.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bb_ref

You obviously have no clue what Joe has done for young officials OR you're not will to acknowledge it because it kills your argument against him. Joe has multiple camps a summer where he hardly charges any money. He stays in the gym everyday at those camps all day long working with young officials. He WORKS with them. He doesn't walk around for 30 mins like some supervisors and leave. He is there for the first game in the morning and leaves the last game at night. He has had nba management to his camps to get young officials a look. He has always worked hard to get young officials as many games as possible and help them advance. Everyone knows how much Joe helps young officials.

May be a little exaggeration going here.

[Back In The Saddle]

Have you noticed how the maturity level here has risen so sharply lately?

[ncaambbref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Have you noticed how the maturity level here has risen so sharply lately?

I will apologize for some of my comments. I let some of the people on here get to me...then I realized, why should I care about personal attacks when they really aren't personal because NONE of you on here know who I am, just as I do not know who any of you are or what leagues you officiate. Some have criticized my officiating ability when you have NO idea what leagues I work at all. That in itself is funny. I could be in the Big East or just a JuCo guy...you NEVER know. ANd yes, I could be working the lockout too! Speculate all you want...

Again, I pointed out what I felt was unfair treatment, regardless if people agree with me or not. Obviously, some do. Obviously, those who are in the Big South know what I have alleged is true. Why else would the NBA and the Big South contact those who were affected to investigate the situation?

It is clear that some have a loyalty connection with Forte and that is fine. But loyalty is a ONE way street. As soon as some of those who are LOYAL to Forte misapply a rule or are late to a game or do something eles, let's see how far that loyalty card takes them. They would more than likely be punished for their actions just as Forte should be punished for his!

Reagrdless of one's personal feelings toward the replacement refs, the game of basketball is bigger than anyone of us. And there will ALWAYS be referees who will gladly step in our shoes, even if YOU may not be one of them.

Forte abused his power as the coordinator of the Big South and this my fellow officials, MUST be addressed!!!

[mbyron]

I'm with Tony: how on earth did the forum come to be the place for this little dog-and-pony show? Can't you weasels get a little chat room somewhere to yell at each other about the "facts?"

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by ncaambbref

NONE of you on here know who I am, just as I do not know who any of you are or what leagues you officiate.

I believe the moderators may have a good idea who you are through your IP address.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

I believe the moderators may have a good idea who you are through your IP address.

*ncaambbref* is another name of another user of another user of another user, all of whom have been suspended for pot stirring.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mick

*ncaambbref* is another name of another user of another user of another user, all of whom have been suspended for pot stirring.

So, essentially he was arguing with himself?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mick

*ncaambbref* is another name of another user of another user of another user, all of whom have been suspended for pot stirring.

Can you just go ahead and suspend this incarnation of him also??? Please??

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by ncaambbref

I will apologize for some of my comments. I let some of the people on here get to me...then I realized, why should I care about personal attacks when they really aren't personal because NONE of you on here know who I am, just as I do not know who any of you are or what leagues you officiate. Some have criticized my officiating ability when you have NO idea what leagues I work at all. That in itself is funny. I could be in the Big East or just a JuCo guy...you NEVER know. ANd yes, I could be working the lockout too! Speculate all you want...

Again, I pointed out what I felt was unfair treatment, regardless if people agree with me or not. Obviously, some do. Obviously, those who are in the Big South know what I have alleged is true. Why else would the NBA and the Big South contact those who were affected to investigate the situation?

It is clear that some have a loyalty connection with Forte and that is fine. But loyalty is a ONE way street. As soon as some of those who are LOYAL to Forte misapply a rule or are late to a game or do something eles, let's see how far that loyalty card takes them. They would more than likely be punished for their actions just as Forte should be punished for his!

Reagrdless of one's personal feelings toward the replacement refs, the game of basketball is bigger than anyone of us. And there will ALWAYS be referees who will gladly step in our shoes, even if YOU may not be one of them.

Forte abused his power as the coordinator of the Big South and this my fellow officials, MUST be addressed!!!

My father used to say, "Working here is like peeing your pants while wearing a dark suit. You get a nice warm feeling, but nobody notices". Much the same could be said about hanging out here.

I'm curious what your goal was in bringing this here. AFAIK Joe Forte doesn't hang out here. And it's a solid bet the commissioner he works for doesn't hang out here. Perhaps a few of his staff, or former staff do. But, as you have told us, they are already well aware of the situation.

That leaves you with a relatively small audience, none of whom can do anything about this issue. Even if we were all stirred to action and took to the streets...then what?

If you're just looking for solidarity for your position on this, the result has been disappointing. But it should not surprise you. We have no dog in this fight. This is not an activist community. We're just here to talk some bball, improve our knowledge, sometimes vent a little, tell a few lies about what levels we're working, and forget that we have no actual social lives.

Nevertheless, though I don't share your outrage at what is happening, I wish you well in your efforts to get some justice for those you feel have been wronged.

[TussAgee11]

I have no dog in this fight.

Seems to me, if the accusations you made were true, we would see some formations of legal proceedings against Mr. Forte. But we have not, so I am left to assume this is a case of a disgruntled person voicing their opinions behind the protection of the keyboard.

If and when charges are brought against Mr. Forte or the Big South, the Big South commissioner fires Mr. Forte, or Mr. Forte's assigning practices change in light of these allegations/pressure from the commissioner, I will consider a change of opinion. For now, play on.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I have no dog in this fight.

Seems to me, if the accusations you made were true, we would see some formations of legal proceedings against Mr. Forte. But we have not, so I am left to assume this is a case of a disgruntled person voicing their opinions behind the protection of the keyboard.

If and when charges are brought against Mr. Forte or the Big South, the Big South commissioner fires Mr. Forte, or Mr. Forte's assigning practices change in light of these allegations/pressure from the commissioner, I will consider a change of opinion. For now, play on.

Unfortunately, being an NBA replacement is not a class of people protecting from discrimination in hiring. Unless there is a broken contract, there is not much they can complain about and get something done. I believe al contacts are year-to-year. In fact, most probalby say there is no guarantee of games. So, the officials really have no legal basis for action.

The officials made a choice and choices have consequences. Now they have to live with them.

And I actually do not support the actions of Forte (if accurately represented) nor do I support the NBA officials refusing to accept a decent offer from the league. While I think unions have their place, most modern day unions ultimately do harm to the people they represent...being the biggest factor in the loss of US jobs...pricing themselves out of the market...forcing companies to move away.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Unfortunately, being an NBA replacement is not a class of people protecting from discrimination in hiring. Unless there is a broken contract, there is not much they can complain about and get something done. I believe al contacts are year-to-year. In fact, most probalby say there is no guarantee of games. So, the officials really have no legal basis for action.

The officials made a choice and choices have consequences. Now they have to live with them.

And I actually do not support the actions of Forte (if accurately represented) nor do I support the NBA officials refusing to accept a decent offer from the league. While I think unions have their place, most modern day unions ultimately do harm to the people they represent...being the biggest factor in the loss of US jobs...pricing themselves out of the market...forcing companies to move away.

I obviously won't play lawyer as I a) have no understanding of the applicable labor laws and b) have no understanding of the intricacies of NBA union / D1 assigning.

I think my point was that if there are no legal proceedings, then he probably didn't break the law. And if he didn't break the law, then tough cookies for those who made choices knowing full well the consequence they could have, as unfair as they may be, as you suggested Camron.