The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 16, 2009, 03:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
NBA admits ignoring traveling rule and now changes it

Updated: October 16, 2009, 1:44 AM ET
NBA to alter traveling rules


ESPN.com news services


NBA players will be able to take two steps before they have to stop, pass or shoot this season.

The NBA has put into writing a rule allowing players on the move to gather the ball, after driving or catching it, and then take two steps. Throughout NBA history, the rulebook said players could take one step.
The new rule reads, in part "A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball."
It is believed to be the first time any league, at any level anywhere in the world, has explicitly allowed two steps.
In March, NBA vice president of referee operations Joe Borgia told TrueHoop's Henry Abbott that referees had long been instructed to ignore the rulebook on this point and allow two steps.
On a conference call with reporters earlier this week, NBA executive vice president of basketball operations Stu Jackson told Abbott: "Based on Joe's comments, when you had a conversation with Joe, we did in fact tweak the language on traveling in this year's book."
Enforcement of the one-step rule has been hit-or-miss at every level of basketball. Archival footage shows NBA greats, from Magic Johnson and Pete Maravich to Bob Cousy and Julius Erving, getting away with two steps. Borgia, whose father was also an NBA official, said he cannot remember a time when NBA referees did not allow two steps.
Others insist allowing two steps represents an NBA strategy to aid scorers and make the league more exciting. Legendary point guard and current Knick broadcaster Walt "Clyde" Frazier says the league relaxed traveling standards some time ago to increase scoring.
"They go 20 feet to the hoop without dribbling one time," Frazier said. "This is what they are getting away with nowadays. Some of them are so obvious. You'll hear me on the broadcast saying 'That's a travel! Watch the feet!' Wilt [Chamberlain] would have averaged 100 points a game if they had let him do that.
"When guys couldn't put up points, about when they changed the hand-check rule, they made things easier for scorers, because these players can't shoot like we did," Frazier said. "Those few years when the Knicks were good [the early 1990s] -- that wasn't pretty basketball."
Whether or not this will affect play on the court remains to be seen. Referees have long been instructed to allow two steps and in interviews with NBA players last season there was some confusion about the rule. But most said they thought they were allowed to take two steps.
ESPN.com TrueHoop blogger Henry Abbott contributed to this story.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 16, 2009, 03:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Walt Frazier is right on. The NBA is not real basketball. It is about entertainment and making money, so the league has done whatever it can to increase scoring in the belief that that will sell more tickets and increase the TV audience.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 16, 2009, 07:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Walt Frazier is right on. The NBA is not real basketball. It is about entertainment and making money, so the league has done whatever it can to increase scoring in the belief that that will sell more tickets and increase the TV audience.
True enough, but not unique to the NBA. Look at the average score in a MLB game today and 30 years ago (mainly park design and player fitness -- steroids AFAIK were not introduced deliberately to increase scoring). NFL, NHL have also changed rules to increase scoring.

Unfortunately, great defense sells tix only to wonks like me.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 16, 2009, 08:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,086
I know NBA scoring has diminished over the last 30 years or so. Does anybody know the actual numbers?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 16, 2009, 08:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Detroit Metro
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by indianaref View Post
i know nba scoring has diminished over the last 30 years or so. Does anybody know the actual numbers?
'78 - '79 110.3
'88 - '89 109.2
'98 - '99 91.6
'01 - '02 95.5
'04 - '05 97.2
'08 - '09 100.0
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 16, 2009, 09:10am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,942
This article validates what I, and many others, thought. That if NBA players were getting away with travelling it's was because the NBA officials were calling (or not calling) that play per guidance from supervision.

I recall a couple folks who just couldn't wrap their brains around that premise.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 11:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
It is about entertainment and making money


This is the first I'm hearing of this! Say it ain't so, Nevada!

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 17, 2009, 04:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanja View Post
ESPN has an article ( NBA head of officials seeks to clarify traveling rule - ESPN ) quoting NBA VP of referee operations Joe Borgia promoting legalization of a second step. The second step issue has bugged me for a while. While its easy to dismiss coaches who say "he only took 2 steps", in practice its much more difficult to adjudicate.

Legally a player can in a continuous motion a) take a first step before completing a dribble or to establish a pivot (e.g. after receiving a pass airborne) and b) then take another step. In practice, it is often a fine line between the latter step being legal or a travel. My rule of thumb has been that if the player is in motion and takes 2 steps, I'm passing on the fine distinction and not calling a violation. However, if the player comes to a stop before the 2 steps then there is clearly a violation.
Per the old post above, we got a hint back in March that the legal NBA 2 step was coming. Despite the best of intentions, getting the borderline travel calls right is hard. I'm not surprising that the new rule reads in part, "A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.". While it is not surprising, it is a bad move that puts the NBA rule at odds with the travel rule at every other level. An acknowledgment that when there is doubt on traveling, a no call is appropriate would have served the purpose.


Take a look at this Lebron travel video from the NBA NBA Video Rule Book. If Lebron had not taken a "3rd step" would you have called travelling for him taking "2 steps"?
__________________
Developer of phillyref.com -- local, national, global officiating information
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 01:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanja View Post
Take a look at this Lebron travel video from the NBA NBA Video Rule Book. If Lebron had not taken a "3rd step" would you have called travelling for him taking "2 steps"?
I don't know when that clip was posted, but if it was prior to the rewrite of the NBA rule, then we have more information that the instruction was counter to the written rule.
From the accompanying text to the video:
"A dribbler may take two steps after gathering the ball to end a dribble."
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 08:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I don't know when that clip was posted, but if it was prior to the rewrite of the NBA rule, then we have more information that the instruction was counter to the written rule.
From the accompanying text to the video:
"A dribbler may take two steps after gathering the ball to end a dribble."
The clip was posted after the rule change. I am posing the hypothetical to make the point that determining a travel at any level is sometimes difficult and that when there is legitimate doubt we should and often do pass on calling a violation. I would like to know if after reviewing the video, and assuming that there was no third step and that the old rule was in play, if my fellow forum members would call a violation. For me, there would be enough doubt in real time, to not call a violation.
__________________
Developer of phillyref.com -- local, national, global officiating information
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 18, 2009, 08:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,281
Looking at the NBA video rulebook, I dont see much of a change. ..

If you look at the three step play, even in high school the first "two steps" were legal.

In NFHS unless I am way off base we allow two steps now.

Look at 4-44 ..

If both feet are off the floor and a player lands simultaneous on both feet (step one).. either foot can be a pivot and you can take a second step with non pivot... (step two)

if both feet are off the floor and one foot is followed by another first to hit is pivot (step one) and second foot hitting( is setp two)...

If catches with one foot on the floor (step one) and jump stops (step two) any steps after that is a third step.......

Although the NBA will allow two steps based on the video and interpretations I dont see how things will change much....

Bottom line we miss alot of travels because we dont know what the pivot foot is... In a fast moving game with a full run do we all know the moment the player catches the ball and then know which foot or feet are on the ground? If we dont I would not be criticizing the NBA way until we can get it right...

How many of us have a player standing on the ground, catches the ball, and player jumps to left or right, or forward and lands on both feet again and then shoots?

Travel by rule but when you call it everybody yells at you.... but it is still a travel...
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 12:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin green View Post
Looking at the NBA video rulebook, I dont see much of a change. ..

If you look at the three step play, even in high school the first "two steps" were legal.

In NFHS unless I am way off base we allow two steps now.
It makes no sense why all of these people on here think they are learning NBA rules from an article which said that last year players were allowed "one step". They make fun of the media for not knowing what they are talking about all the time but then this article comes along and everyone believes every word. I mean seriously, it is obvious this guy has no idea what the rules are. It wasn't "one step" last year. I haven't seen the new NBA rule book but I doubt it will say anything about "2 steps". Traveling will still be called with the movement of the pivot foot. The NBA already had different rules (opposed to NCAA, NFHS) regarding alighting with the ball and establishing a pivot foot. I doubt a slight change to that will have a large effect on the game.

Last edited by LDUB; Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:12am.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 19, 2009, 08:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin green View Post
Looking at the NBA video rulebook, I dont see much of a change. ..

If you look at the three step play, even in high school the first "two steps" were legal.

In NFHS unless I am way off base we allow two steps now.

Look at 4-44 ..

If both feet are off the floor and a player lands simultaneous on both feet (step one).. either foot can be a pivot and you can take a second step with non pivot... (step two)

if both feet are off the floor and one foot is followed by another first to hit is pivot (step one) and second foot hitting( is setp two)...

If catches with one foot on the floor (step one) and jump stops (step two) any steps after that is a third step.......
That's exactly why I get confused when the discussion centers around "number of steps" -- I wouldn't call any of your "step one" a step.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When do you stop ignoring fans? JefferMC Softball 23 Thu Aug 16, 2007 08:25am
confused by the traveling rule ysong Basketball 54 Tue May 24, 2005 08:55pm
Traveling (Rule 4-43 art.3a) question!?!? SeahawkSanders Basketball 25 Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:39pm
CFL Admits Officiation was Bad. It Will Be Better ref18 Football 24 Wed Dec 01, 2004 09:52pm
NCAA Rule on traveling akingsfan Basketball 6 Sat Mar 17, 2001 05:52pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:44pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1