Basketball has started...

[jdmara]

Last night was the first night of basketball at the local rec center. I thought I knew what to expect since I did this Men's League last year. I, honestly, was pleasantly surprised by the behavior of the players. I heard very little chirping from the players (maybe because I was sick earlier in the week and have fluid in my ears, I couldn't understand what anyone was saying if they were talking softly).

Anyways, the first two game I was officiating with a very experienced official. We had two great games, well controlled and fun to work. The last two games I switched to the other gym and knew I was in a little trouble. The new partner is not as experienced (second year) and he really struggled last year. Unfortunately, the players know he is inexperienced and know that they can "persuade his calls."

My three favorite calls of the night:

1. Player drives the lane and clearly gets fouled while the ball is at his waist for a layup. The ball goes flying away behind him as he gets fouled. Partner whistles..."No shot, he didn't continue the shooting motion".......Ok...

Later in the half, the same thing. I guess if you don't have the ball after getting throttled by the defense, you should still pretend because you won't get the shooting free throws if you don't continue. Still don't how to address that situation. I told him at half, you have to make a judgment whether the player was in the act of shooting before the foul but that did not change the calls..

2. Player is in the corner. Attempts to make a pass to the other corner. Well the rim was in the way and launches the ball into the backcourt. Offense recovers the ball in the backcourt. *whistle* "Over and back" I could be wrong on this one, but I believe you have to consider that a shot and it's legal to retrieve the ball (please correct me if I'm wrong). I did correct the call because it was a pivotal point in the game (hopefully I got it right).

3. Player receives the ball near the elbow, dribbles once or twice, and then holds the ball. *Tweet* "Five Seconds"...I was just shocked. I don't even believe the player had control of the ball, let alone met the requirements of five seconds closely guarded.

Anyways, I am glad that basketball has started and hope that we all have a good year.

-Josh

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by jdmara

2. Player is in the corner. Attempts to make a pass to the other corner. Well the rim was in the way and launches the ball into the backcourt. Offense recovers the ball in the backcourt. *whistle* "Over and back" I could be wrong on this one, but I believe you have to consider that a shot and it's legal to retrieve the ball (please correct me if I'm wrong). I did correct the call because it was a pivotal point in the game (hopefully I got it right).-Josh

4.12.2 SITUATION: A1’s missed try rebounds directly to A’s backcourt where A2 gains control. Is this a violation? RULING: No. Both player and team control
ended when A1 released the ball on the try. The rebound into A’s backcourt was not in control of either team. (9-9-1)

Originally Posted by jdmara

1. Player drives the lane and clearly gets fouled while the ball is at his waist for a layup. The ball goes flying away behind him as he gets fouled. Partner whistles..."No shot, he didn't continue the shooting motion".......Ok...

Later in the half, the same thing. I guess if you don't have the ball after getting throttled by the defense, you should still pretend because you won't get the shooting free throws if you don't continue. Still don't how to address that situation.

2. Player is in the corner. Attempts to make a pass to the other corner. Well the rim was in the way and launches the ball into the backcourt. Offense recovers the ball in the backcourt. *whistle* "Over and back"

3. Player receives the ball near the elbow, dribbles once or twice, and then holds the ball. *Tweet* "Five Seconds"...I was just shocked.

This is about the time you ask the partner to hand over his whistle

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jdmara

2. Player is in the corner. Attempts to make a pass to the other corner. Well the rim was in the way and launches the ball into the backcourt. Offense recovers the ball in the backcourt. *whistle* "Over and back" I could be wrong on this one, but I believe you have to consider that a shot and it's legal to retrieve the ball (please correct me if I'm wrong). I did correct the call because it was a pivotal point in the game (hopefully I got it right).

The rules do not require you to consider it a shot: it's up to you to determine whether it's a shot. You reported that it was a pass, in which case you had a BC violation.

HOWEVER, I don't know anyone who would rule that this was a pass. The relevant case has already been posted: during a try, there's no team control and so a BC violation is not possible in this case. So in practice I'd say you got it right.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The rules do not require you to consider it a shot: it's up to you to determine whether it's a shot. You reported that it was a pass, in which case you had a BC violation.

HOWEVER, I don't know anyone who would rule that this was a pass. The relevant case has already been posted: during a try, there's no team control and so a BC violation is not possible in this case. So in practice I'd say you got it right.

I do! I officiated with him last night. I told him that you have to consider this a shot (as the case play would then apply).

Under NCAA rules would the shot close reset?

-Josh

[CLH]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I do! I officiated with him last night. I told him that you have to consider this a shot (as the case play would then apply).

Under NCAA rules would the shot close reset?

-Josh

Since you are considering this is a legal shot, it's a shot that hit the rim...yessir, reset the shot clock.

[OHBBREF]

You do not have to consider this a try
it makes a difference in enforcement

If it is clearly a pass and it hits the rim and bounds into the back court it would be a BC violation.

If it is considered a try then the case play applies there is no BC violation and the SC would reset.

just because a ball passing in the general area hits the rim it does not make it a try.

Originally Posted by jdmara

... I told him that you have to consider this a shot (as the case play would then apply).
-Josh

You are trying to make the situation fit the case play rather than the case play fit the situation, you have to call it what it is.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

You do not have to consider this a try
it makes a difference in enforcement

If it is clearly a pass and it hits the rim and bounds into the back court it would be a BC violation.

If it is considered a try then the case play applies there is no BC violation and the SC would reset.

just because a ball passing in the general area hits the rim it does not make it a try.



You are trying to make the situation fit the case play rather than the case play fit the situation, you have to call it what it is.

True story, that. And well explained.

I will go on record here saying I hold with the generally prevailing philosophy. Unless it is undeniably a pass, I'm calling it a shot.

[IowaMike]

I too would call it a shot. I think you got it right. You're also a better man than I, because I would never work a men's rec league. I worked a men's league tournament as part of our association's clinic about five years ago and it was the worst officiating experience of my life. Three games and about 7 or 8 technical fouls and two fights. The players were complete idiots. And get this, all of the players were in law enforcement. Cops, correctional officers, sheriff's deputy's, firefighters etc. Unbelievable. Never again. I know guys that do men's league baseball and they tell me that kind of behavior is standard there too.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

I too would call it a shot. I think you got it right. You're also a better man than I, because I would never work a men's rec league. I worked a men's league tournament as part of our association's clinic about five years ago and it was the worst officiating experience of my life. Three games and about 7 or 8 technical fouls and two fights. The players were complete idiots. And get this, all of the players were in law enforcement. Cops, correctional officers, sheriff's deputy's, firefighters etc. Unbelievable. Never again. I know guys that do men's league baseball and they tell me that kind of behavior is standard there too.

Mike-

I have cut out a lot of rec leagues this fall. This one is very well behaved because it's in a no-nonsense community center. There is a no swearing policy that is STRICTLY enforce and the guys get the hint very quickly that you're done if you swear or make a scene of any kind.

-Josh

Originally Posted by IowaMike

I too would call it a shot. I think you got it right. You're also a better man than I, because I would never work a men's rec league. I worked a men's league tournament as part of our association's clinic about five years ago and it was the worst officiating experience of my life. Three games and about 7 or 8 technical fouls and two fights. The players were complete idiots. And get this, all of the players were in law enforcement. Cops, correctional officers, sheriff's deputy's, firefighters etc. Unbelievable. Never again. I know guys that do men's league baseball and they tell me that kind of behavior is standard there too.

Ehhh, they couldn't have been any worse than the regional Greek Orthodox tournament I worked once.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Ehhh, they couldn't have been any worse than the regional Greek Orthodox tournament I worked once.

Couldn't be any worse than the team of basketball officials playing, could they? lol Talking about officiating while playing wow. We do have one team in the Rec League that is made up of basketball officials. They are the problem child of the group. They get to "the line" but never cross it. They know better.

-Josh

Nothing worse than the "I ref too" type of player, just to find out later that their experience level is 3rd grade YMCA games where they don't even keep score

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Nothing worse than the "I ref too" type of player, just to find out later that their experience level is 3rd grade YMCA games where they don't even keep score

Last summer (2008) I had a entire coaching staff tell me they were evaluators for a big-time officiating camp here in VA.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Last summer (2008) I had a entire coaching staff tell me they were evaluators for a big-time officiating camp here in VA.

I hope you tossed them all, just on principle