Tough situation my partner put us in

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Smitty

What would you do?

Tell the newbie that camp is a good opportunity to work on game management techniques and send him/her over to the blue coach to explain.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Tell the newbie that camp is a good opportunity to work on game management techniques and send him/her over to the blue coach to explain.

You could also tell your P to be ready to tell the blue coach that camp is a good time to learn how to handle being on the short end of crappy rules.

[just another ref]

Let's turn to page 7 in our books.

THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE RULES

A player or team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule.




Give the ball to blue.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Let's turn to page 7 in our books.

THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE RULES

A player or team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule.




Give the ball to blue.

NO!! NO!! NO!! There is specific rule that covers this situation and unfortunately White is awarded a designated spot throw-in.

MTD, Sr.

[M&M Guy]

Maybe that's my problem - I haven't used big red letters.

[wanja]

The outcome is correct by common sense and justifiable by rule. This was not an inadvertant whistle and should not be treated as such. Your partner erroneously called a backcourt violation and should live with the call. He should award the ball to blue and play on.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by wanja

The outcome is correct by common sense and justifiable by rule. This was not an inadvertant whistle and should not be treated as such. Your partner erroneously called a backcourt violation and should live with the call. He should award the ball to blue and play on.

You ever take away a violation call? I've done it due to confusing lines. I've had partners do it, one after he recognized it was a throwin so the action was legal; the other after I went to him as lead to tell him it had been tipped by the defense in the lane.

It absolutely is an inadvertent whistle, but Camron is right, I think, about the purpose and intent. The IW (or "accidental whistle" as I believe it's called) rule was written to have a fair way of putting the ball back in play. It was not meant to take away an obvious possession like this.

Just don't tell Chargers fans this, or they'll get all riled up again.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

.

Just don't tell Chargers fans this, or they'll get all riled up again.

Snaqwells, we were cool (unbeknown to each other) until you brought the Chargers out of your mouth!!

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by wanja

The outcome is correct by common sense and justifiable by rule.

Common sense? So what? Are you really saying you would make a ruling based on not wanting the blue team to get upset with you (and the crew)?

Do you have a rule reference?

So, here we go with the "common sense" vs. "rule" argument. Color me old and grumpy, but I see one major flaw with the argument. It goes completely against 4-36. Yep, one team got screwed out of a score because the official made the mistake of blowing the whistle when they should not have. Too bad - there's a rule to fix that. Once they feel the heat, I'll bet they don't do that again.

So, you give the ball to blue because they might get upset? If I'm white's coach, I'm really going to get upset that you're compounding a screwup with completely ignoring a specific rule. You're going to be getting heat one way or the other, so why not get it right one of those times? And if the heat's too bad, there's a rule to fix that as well.

Look, I understand the issue of rec leagues, camp situation etc. And, if the whistle happend so close to blue getting the ball, I would have no problem with blue ending up with possession. But as I read the OP, the whistle sounded well before blue ended up with it, so white still has team control, and white will have the throw-in.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Common sense? So what? Are you really saying you would make a ruling based on not wanting the blue team to get upset with you (and the crew)?

Do you have a rule reference?

So, here we go with the "common sense" vs. "rule" argument. Color me old and grumpy, but I see one major flaw with the argument. It goes completely against 4-36. Yep, one team got screwed out of a score because the official made the mistake of blowing the whistle when they should not have. Too bad - there's a rule to fix that. Once they feel the heat, I'll bet they don't do that again.

So, you give the ball to blue because they might get upset? If I'm white's coach, I'm really going to get upset that you're compounding a screwup with completely ignoring a specific rule. You're going to be getting heat one way or the other, so why not get it right one of those times? And if the heat's too bad, there's a rule to fix that as well.

Look, I understand the issue of rec leagues, camp situation etc. And, if the whistle happend so close to blue getting the ball, I would have no problem with blue ending up with possession. But as I read the OP, the whistle sounded well before blue ended up with it, so white still has team control, and white will have the throw-in.

Have a look at the case plays regarding an official incorrectly announcing the number of FTs. The rulings in these plays are not based on the rules. In fact, some of them technically contradict rules. But, the rulings are common sense and do the right thing.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Look, I understand the issue of rec leagues, camp situation etc. And, if the whistle happend so close to blue getting the ball, I would have no problem with blue ending up with possession. But as I read the OP, the whistle sounded well before blue ended up with it, so white still has team control, and white will have the throw-in.

I completely understand your point of view as well. It was just such a weird situation because White could not have legally touched the ball at the time of the whistle, so that compounded my confusion. I still think by rule, white should get the ball, but I also would lean toward giving it to blue based on the situation.

I really wish my partner hadn't blown his whistle - then the girl on blue could have missed her layup and white would have had the ball anyway.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Common sense? So what? Are you really saying you would make a ruling based on not wanting the blue team to get upset with you (and the crew)?

Do you have a rule reference?

So, here we go with the "common sense" vs. "rule" argument. Color me old and grumpy, but I see one major flaw with the argument. It goes completely against 4-36. Yep, one team got screwed out of a score because the official made the mistake of blowing the whistle when they should not have. Too bad - there's a rule to fix that. Once they feel the heat, I'll bet they don't do that again.

So, you give the ball to blue because they might get upset? If I'm white's coach, I'm really going to get upset that you're compounding a screwup with completely ignoring a specific rule. You're going to be getting heat one way or the other, so why not get it right one of those times? And if the heat's too bad, there's a rule to fix that as well.

Look, I understand the issue of rec leagues, camp situation etc. And, if the whistle happend so close to blue getting the ball, I would have no problem with blue ending up with possession. But as I read the OP, the whistle sounded well before blue ended up with it, so white still has team control, and white will have the throw-in.

I agree with your premise. I am tired of everything we do is not to piss someone off. We already pissed someone off by making an obvious mistake. Why compound it by not following the rules in this case?

Peace

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

You could also tell your P to be ready to tell the blue coach that camp is a good time to learn how to handle being on the short end of crappy rules.

This was rec league. I was shocked that the camp was being held during a rec league tourney. The coaches couldn't have cared less about the rules. They did not know we were running a camp - nor would they have cared. These were the kind of people who would rant and rave if they were happy, let alone when they were unhappy. There was no good to come out of trying to explain anything to the coaches. It was the worst of all worlds crashing together all at once.

It reminded me of being in a "Want to get away?" Southwest Air commercial...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

As soon as the ball bounces in the backcourt, my partner blows his whistle and calls an over and back violation on White. There's not a White team player within 10 feet of the ball. When I go over and ask what he's doing, he has the deer in the headlights look. He realizes he's kicked it, but now what do we do?

He called a violation. No matter how wrong this call is, it would not be as wrong as giving the ball back to white.

[CLH]

Just a thought here guys to add to the discussion....

Are we sure that team A is still in control?

Obviously we have an interrupted dribble....however, she is able to regain the ball, albeit momentarily and fling it into the backcourt...

Now, we know team control extends through a pass...but, can we consider this a pass? She flings the ball to an area where none of her teammates can even go get it...how can that be a pass?

One could make the argument that white has lost control of it and we are in a loose ball situation....thus we have to go with the arrow because we can't just assume the blue player was going to retrieve it....

just a thought