What's the point of vacating?

[Nevadaref]

Sources: NCAA may 'vacate' Memphis Tigers victories - ESPN

The article says that the NCAA will likely make Memphis vacate its Final Four appearance and its 38-win season.

WHO CARES?!?!?!

If they aren't going to impose any financial penalties against the school or the coach, then what is the point?

Personally, I believe that for each game that a team must forfeit the person who was the head coach should be suspended WITHOUT pay for a game. So if Calipari's Memphis team is stripped of those 38 wins two seasons ago, then he should have to serve a 38-game suspension and not get paid for it. Memphis should have to return any revenue from their NCAA tournament games to be divided equally amongst the other NCAA tournament teams, and the school should be fined a certain amount for its regular season games based upon what revenue was generated for those.

If the NCAA were to make the schools and the coaches generate their money according to the regulations and not violate them, then this stuff would get cleaned up. Until it tied to the money, no one will care.

[/RANT OFF]

[grunewar]

Good points Nevada. The penalties should definitely be stiffer.

I guess one coach who might differ is a guy like Bobby Bowden......who's trying to keep up with Joe Pa and would be very sad to see some of his victories "vacated."

[bbcof83]

Agreed. The Gophers had to "vacate" their '97 final four and our official record during the Clem Haskins era ('93-'99) is 0-0, regular and post-season. What does hurt a program is they took away scholarships and put the program on probation, which we're just recovering from now with Tubby. But the "vacating" of victories and banners alone does nothing to penalize the program.

[Adam]

It's not like they take away fans' memories; which is what drives booster dollars.

[Camron Rust]

The entire problem is punishing the right party. In some infractions, the schools will have done everything they possibly could to detect/prevent infractions and will not be aware that anything occurred.

The problem in this situation (and I admittedly don't have all the facts) appears that the school is being punished for what Rose did in HS...quite possibly without any knowledge of the university or the team.

The school doesn't supervise any SAT test. AFAIK, the school didn't provide the stand-in for Rose or coach Rose on how to get one. The NCAA cleared the player as having an eligible score. To financially punish the school for an infraction they didn't know about and couldn't have known about or prevented is going too far.

Vacating games may even be a bit extreme.

Now, if Memphis knew (not rumors, but confirmed facts) about the infraction at some point, subsequent games should be vacated and the fines should be levied.

The result of the entire situation should be for the NCAA to find a better way to validate student-athelete's eligibility so that teams are not subject to disqualification after the fact.

[Matt S.]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Sources: NCAA may 'vacate' Memphis Tigers victories - ESPN


If they aren't going to impose any financial penalties against the school or the coach, then what is the point?

[/RANT OFF]

Actually, Memphis will forfeit all monies earned in the NCAA tournament-and has to return that $$$ to Conference USA. The school may also lose a percentage of its conference share in the future...

You cannot sanction the current program-different coach, players, etc...they did place the school on 3 years probation.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

Actually, Memphis will forfeit all monies earned in the NCAA tournament-and has to return that $$$ to Conference USA. The school may also lose a percentage of its conference share in the future...

You cannot sanction the current program-different coach, players, etc...they did place the school on 3 years probation.

The coach should be sanctioned even if he's at another school! The fact that the coach has no liability when he moves to another school is ridiculous.

-Josh

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

You cannot sanction the current program-different coach, players, etc...they did place the school on 3 years probation.

Actually, they can and have done so on several occasions. The institution is ultimately responsible for most infractions. And the player are almost always different at the time of the sanctions for any infraction.

[Nevadaref]

BTW has an NCAA champion ever been vacated?
I don't think so.
Does anyone think that this would be done had Memphis not messed up the last couple minutes of the championship game and lost to Kansas in OT?

I seriously doubt it.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, they can and have done so on several occasions. The institution is ultimately responsible for most infractions. And the player are almost always different at the time of the sanctions for any infraction.

And it makes sense to do so, because the school is still making money from the program, no matter who is coaching or playing. That's ultimately the sting of sanctions.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

BTW has an NCAA champion ever been vacated?
I don't think so.
Does anyone think that this would be done had Memphis not messed up the last couple minutes of the championship game and lost to Kansas in OT?

I seriously doubt it.

Well, I know in the case of Michigan basketball, the team vacated a Final Four appearence, an NIT championship, and a Big Ten championship in various years from their scandal. I would think the NCAA would have no real issues with vacating the championship if Memphis would've won.

The NCAA has vacated championships, but not yet in D-I basketball. If you were to look at their list of champions in various sports, you might spot the vacated championships.

Did some quick research. Only took me about 20 minutes to get it all done. In it's entire history, the NCAA has vacated only 8 championships (that I could discern from their website). The hall of shame:

1989-Div. II Football-Mississippi College
1988-Div. I Women's Golf-Tulsa
1990-Div. I Men's Lacrosse-Syracuse
1971-Div. I Men's Soccer-Howard
1978-Div. I Men's Soccer-San Francisco
1995-Div. I Softball-UCLA
2002-Men's Volleyball-Hawaii
2003-Men's Volleyball-Lewis

You'll see the latest vacation of a championship was the 2003 Men's VB championship Lewis got stripped of. It doesn't happen often, but championship vacations do happen.

[JPaco54]

Jeff Caulkins writer here for the CA, stated a few things I thought were interesting in this morning's paper. Hopefully you will be able to copy and past the link. Why did Rose go to Detroit to take the test when he is from chicago?

Geoff Calkins: In Calipari's defense ? oh wait, there is none : GoMemphisTigers : Your leading source for The University of Memphis Tigers

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

BTW has an NCAA champion ever been vacated?
I don't think so.
Does anyone think that this would be done had Memphis not messed up the last couple minutes of the championship game and lost to Kansas in OT?

I seriously doubt it.

This created quite a bit of discussion in my neck of the woods yesterday; what if Chalmers' shot rims out and the Tigers win? Would they NCAA vacate the championship, and if so, would that mean my Jayhawks would be the belated champs?

Consensus seemed to be that the NCAA would have meted out a different penalty and avoided vacating a "major" championship like D-1 men's BB, and creating more confusion/controversy over who should be declared the champs.