A coach even a mother couldn't love :(

[Back In The Saddle]

Watched a camp game today between a pretty good 4-A school and a much less talented 2-A school. With about 7-8 minutes left in the game, the winning coach started to play his subs.

Then his scrubs.

And pretty soon he was putting jerserys on what looked like 6th grade boys and putting them on the floor. And before you ask, no these were definitely not diminutive freshman. The first one on the floor was wearing a collared shirt under his jersey, and obviously was not there to play. Perhaps they were younger brothers of some of the players. Who knows.

Needless to say, he pissed off pretty much everybody in the building who wasn't one of his weenie supporters. And there was an understandably ugly moment after the game with the opposing coach.

I wondered at the time what I would do if it were my game. I considered that if I were the losing coach, I'd probably pull my team. If I were the losing players, it would be hard not to give one of the little wannabes a lesson in playing with the big boys. (Okay, I discarded that idea pretty quickly).

A little later on I settled on what I could do as an official.

1. When the little kid reports, I refuse to allow him into the game
2. When the coach wants to make something of it, I inform him that making a travesty of the game is grounds for forfeit, and I would not hesitate to do so
3. Find the first possible opportunity to unload the *******
4. If he doesn't have an assistant, even better as I would forfeit the game

Any thoughts?

[Nevadaref]

What were the camp restrictions for the age of the players?

If the kids meet the camp requirements, or there weren't any written down, then its none of the official's business who the coach plays as part of his team.

[SAK]

You may have to go to camp directors about this one. However if players were removing their jersey's while on the bench you could call a T for removal of the jersey and being bench personnel that would also be an indirect to the coach.

[amusedofficial]

We have a coach drubbing the opposition. He continually reduces the caliber of player on the court -- beginning with taking the starters out, then going deeper and deeper to his bench (and perhaps his imagined bench).

It's a camp? Absent formal requirements on rostering and eligibility, I'm not having a big problem with a coach avoiding humiliating an opponent by sitting kids who outclass the opposition (unless the depths to which he reached to get players on the court is, in an of itself, humiliation)

But again, I'm not very bright so I might have missed something.

[Back In The Saddle]

Reducing the caliber of players is one thing. But when you start ad hoc suiting up 6th graders and sending them in a varsity game, especially kids that are not even on the team...that's not avoiding humiliation. That's heaping humiliation onto the other team.

And, at that point, it ceases to be a contest because, to the losing kids' credit, they pulled back and let the little kids shoot, pulled up at times to make sure they didn't accidentally hurt one of the little kids. Though they did swat away a last second shot attempt by one of the little guys.

Yes, I believe there are some age restrictions. At least when I asked a younger player before one game why he was sitting across the court from his varsity team and, "Aren't you a starter?" the kid smiles and says, "Yeah, but I'm too young to play in this game." Not exactly authoritative, but certainly suggestive that there is some age restrictions for varsity play at least.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

A little later on I settled on what I could do as an official.

1. When the little kid reports, I refuse to allow him into the game
2. When the coach wants to make something of it, I inform him that making a travesty of the game is grounds for forfeit, and I would not hesitate to do so
3. Find the first possible opportunity to unload the *******
4. If he doesn't have an assistant, even better as I would forfeit the game

Any thoughts?

I'd avoid 1-4 and go with:

5) Officiate the game
6) Inform the camp director

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'd avoid 1-4 and go with:

5) Officiate the game
6) Inform the camp director

I agree. Getting involved in too much stuff at a camp.

Peace

[Juulie Downs]

What did your evals have to say about that game?

[Adam]

assuming the players aren't on the roster and need to be added, just start issuing Ts. This may be an exception, but I have never worked even a summer league that specifically discarded the roster rules.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

assuming the players aren't on the roster and need to be added, just start issuing Ts. This may be an exception, but I have never worked even a summer league that specifically discarded the roster rules.

I don't remember the last time I did a summer where there actually was a roster.

[Texas Aggie]

Yeah, summer and camp games are pretty freelanced, but if they aren't on the bench, in uniform, or arriving late and the same, I'm not letting them in the game -- at least not without the other coach's approval. If they say, "hey, there's no book," I'll say something like, "we're going to pretend there is and what you started with (or who came late legitimately) is what you have for the game."

Just remember, you wouldn't dare let a JV team (just for example) put in a college player. Why would you let them put in a jr. high player?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Yeah, summer and camp games are pretty freelanced, but if they aren't on the bench, in uniform, or arriving late and the same, I'm not letting them in the game -- at least not without the other coach's approval. If they say, "hey, there's no book," I'll say something like, "we're going to pretend there is and what you started with (or who came late legitimately) is what you have for the game."

The coach should look at you as if you are from Mars. The two camps that I've done so far this summer didn't have rosters and didn't keep individual fouls. Only the running score and team fouls were charted.
As others have already said, it's a poor idea to try to get involved in something which doesn't concern you.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Just remember, you wouldn't dare let a JV team (just for example) put in a college player. Why would you let them put in a jr. high player?

Because the jr high kid may be permitted to participate. The camp could be for kids age 12-18 or something like that.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The coach should look at you as if you are from Mars. The two camps that I've done so far this summer didn't have rosters and didn't keep individual fouls. Only the running score and team fouls were charted.
As others have already said, it's a poor idea to try to get involved in something which doesn't concern you.



Because the jr high kid may be permitted to participate. The camp could be for kids age 12-18 or something like that.

Despite how irritated I was at the guy for his behavior, after a (very short but) good night's sleep, and a chat with another buddy, I opted to go with Bob's #5 & 6.

I did have the guy for a game that next day, and it turned out to be a helluva good one too. He ended up losing by 4 points (give or take) to the team that took 2nd at the camp.

[Hugh Refner]

I've worked quite a few spring and summer league "camp games" and the only question I ask when a sub (who doesn't look like he or she is really "on the team") is coming it is if that kid is registered in the program. If so, they play. If not, they don't. The guys from the program (coaches, etc), not me, decide who plays and what that mix will be.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Despite how irritated I was at the guy for his behavior, after a (very short but) good night's sleep, and a chat with another buddy, I opted to go with Bob's #5 & 6.

I did have the guy for a game that next day, and it turned out to be a helluva good one too. He ended up losing by 4 points (give or take) to the team that took 2nd at the camp.

I'm glad. That's the intelligent route to take.

As for some of the silly things that coaches do at summer camp...

Working the championship game between two teams which had played earlier in the weekend with White winning. This time Blue starts out well and is ahead by double digits. My partner has penalized White for traveling three times. I'm the Lead tableside and the ball is on this side of the court near the sideline below the FT line extended. Player for Blue takes a jab step with his non-pivot foot and then does a cross-over step with this same foot followed by quickly lifting his pivot foot, but not putting it back down, and striding in the same direction as the cross-over step in order to get a better angle when throwing a pass to a teammate near the top of the arc.

The coach says to me, "You have to call that."
Me: "Call what, coach?"
Coach: "A travel."
Me: "He didn't travel, coach."
Coach: "I know that, but your partner has called three travels against us already, and you have to get one against them."
Me: "Sorry, coach, I wasn't aware of that rule."
Coach: "You don't have to be a smart@ss about it."
Me: "I wouldn't be, if you weren't being a dumb@ss about it."