My First T!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Wrong again.

Unwilling to admit it, again.

I will admit to this just like you will admit that most of us do not have to do rec. leagues (not even in most areas I am aware of) and middle school games in order to do a simple HS game. You seemed to be very unwilling to admit to that. But I have to admit (at least you think I should) to something that was covered under a broader heading. OK, whatever Tony. Your logic apply to everyone else, not to you.

Peace

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by JRutledge
There was not a POE, there was a rule change last year with the coaching box. But of course that depended on your state. Illinois always (at least for as long as I can remember or have been officiating) had the 6 foot box until last year when they expanded it. And the big deal was to keep coaches in the box at all times no matter what when it was expanded last year. Well of course they threatened to take it away all together if officials did not enforce it strictly. And once the season started, all that went completely out the window. I did not see one T for a coach out of the box all year. And the State Interpreters basically told us to give Ts if the coach had a foot outside the box, no matter what. I guess that shows how much influence they had on that one.

Peace

Sounds to me like you and your cohorts didn't have the balls to inforce the rules. There is the problem in a nutshell. If you take a stand that is supported by your organization in writing, you are not wrong. If you cop out and give in to the coaches and let them do as THEY see fit, you might need to look in the mirror to see if you really have what it takes. You constantly remind us that you are a college official (at least a few games a year), and I guarantee you that supervisors want the rule inforced.

But what do I know, since I am not in Illinois and you are probably having to call games for people whose backgrounds allow for profanity as a way of life that should not be inforced and who do not need authority figures with the guts to do what is right instead of what is easy.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by bigwhistle

Sounds to me like you and your cohorts didn't have the balls to inforce the rules. There is the problem in a nutshell. If you take a stand that is supported by your organization in writing, you are not wrong. If you cop out and give in to the coaches and let them do as THEY see fit, you might need to look in the mirror to see if you really have what it takes.

Bigwhistle
I think that's a bit harsh of an assessment of Jruts stance. I think this is more an instance where the refs are going to call the game as it is played on the court, and use the coaching box rule when the coach is causing a problem. NF went first to the seatbelt and then to the optional box a long time ago because of coach problems. I think that most refs are not expending a lot of energy trying to enforce a rule that does not significantly impact the play on the court. When a coach's comportment becomes a problem, the rule is there and can be very useful.

Most refs have their own set of lines that coaches can't cross, and when they do, they are seatbelted. And I got one who had a narrower set of lines, or a narrower mind when it comes to coaches pointing out obvious oversights!

[bigwhistle]

Coach,

I don't have a problem with officials giving a lot of leeway to coaches who are doing their job and hanppen to leave the box. Rut's comment however was that there was not a single instance that he knew of in his area where the box was enforced. This either means that all of the coaches were angels all year (doubtful) or that the instances where action need to be taken were overlooked.

[paulis]

Hawks Coach,

In reading your posts you seem like a real gentleman and a great asset to your kids and the game. It can not be surprising to any of us that your first T came in such a manner (as opposed to the type of T's we give most coaches). I remember when I first started officiating and how reluctant and nervous I was about calling my first T. Once it was over and I survived and realized that the world had not ended, it became easier to issue them. Yes, your situation stinks but I hope that your personal flood gates have not opened and that you continue to approach the game with your positive attitude. Having coaches who just coach and leave the officiating to the officials truly makes our jobs that much easier!

[Hawks Coach]

Gotcha BW and I concur with your assessment of the specific statements jrut made. I also thought his language was a bit extreme, but I have seen that behavior enough that I sometimes tend to ignore the stylistic elements and focus on the overall message, which was that the refs tended to ignore the coaching box POE and focus on the game. And I agree with jrut that it is the right thing to do.

I have only seen one ref that made the box a personal POE, and he can't ref the floor to save his @$$. However, he issues timeouts as soon as he sees a coach leave the box, reasoning that the only way you can leave it is to request a TO . You can't contest the TO or he will give you a T - his rule! He has even gave my team a TO when I was in the six foot painted box, because he redefined the box to his liking and I wasn't in it - no argument allowed! Never mind that it was the third quarter and I was standing exactly where I had been the entire game.

When you see those kind of extremes, you appreciate the refs who have a sense of perspective.

[ScottParks]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
However, he issues timeouts as soon as he sees a coach leave the box, reasoning that the only way you can leave it is to request a TO . You can't contest the TO or he will give you a T - his rule! He has even gave my team a TO when I was in the six foot painted box, because he redefined the box to his liking and I wasn't in it - no argument allowed! Never mind that it was the third quarter and I was standing exactly where I had been the entire game.

You mean we can't apply our elasticity rules here?

[Hawks Coach]

The way he stretches things, elasticity is occurring.

[JRutledge]

BigWhistle,

I think you need to realize that officials that I know do not worry about coaches unless they are bothering them. Or at least the accomplished ones. If coaches are coaching and talking to their kids, they can stand anywhere as far as I am concerned. But the minute they start yelling at me and complaining about things I am doing and getting my attention, we have a problem. Then and only then did I know any official make a real issue out of the coaching box. To me Ts are a weapon that need to be used carefully. Not to be used everytime a slight infraction is violated. Or at best, not obvious to everyone in the gym.

Coaches have a job to do, officials have a job to do. I cannot do my job if I am looking at the coach all day and all night. And when they do step out of the box, we encourage them to get back.

Not a big deal from where I am standing.

Peace