My First T!!!

[Hawks Coach]

Finally got a direct T the other night. Here's the sitch. Girls 8th grade summer travel league, come out of halftime with opponents getting the ball. We have a 4 point lead. Opponents put six players on the court. We yell to the ref administering the throw-in, he looks at us, hands the ball over, and they inbound and score within about ten seconds. The entire time we are yelling to both refs that there are six players on the court. Both refs at one point or another make eye contact, and continue on with play. To be more clear, this is a quiet gym (as gyms go) and we have not directed a single comment to the officials all night (so we have not trained them to ignore us ).

As we inbound, the opposing coach actually gets his players attention and gets one to come over to the sideline (at this point, everyone except the refs is aware of what is going on). As she steps off the court, I finally get my point across to the trail and he stops play. He assesses a team tech to my opponents and a direct to me for being on the court. I look down and my feet are both within a foot of the sideline, but yes, on the court directly in front of my bench (I was not running across the court like a lunatic). I felt it was an attempt to save face. The opposing coach is a friend and he is just dying laughing, because he knows he got away with one.

End result - they get a basket (not a correctable error), we get ball but lose arrow, and nobody shoots the FTs because of the simultaneous Ts. So yeah, we coaches have those nights too.

[stripes]

IMO, bad officiating. They ding you on a technicality while you point out THEIR error. A friendly reminder to get back into the box would have been sufficient.

[devdog69]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Finally got a direct T the other night. Here's the sitch. Girls 8th grade summer travel league, come out of halftime with opponents getting the ball. We have a 4 point lead. Opponents put six players on the court. We yell to the ref administering the throw-in, he looks at us, hands the ball over, and they inbound and score within about ten seconds. The entire time we are yelling to both refs that there are six players on the court. Both refs at one point or another make eye contact, and continue on with play. To be more clear, this is a quiet gym (as gyms go) and we have not directed a single comment to the officials all night (so we have not trained them to ignore us ).

As we inbound, the opposing coach actually gets his players attention and gets one to come over to the sideline (at this point, everyone except the refs is aware of what is going on). As she steps off the court, I finally get my point across to the trail and he stops play. He assesses a team tech to my opponents and a direct to me for being on the court. I look down and my feet are both within a foot of the sideline, but yes, on the court directly in front of my bench (I was not running across the court like a lunatic). I felt it was an attempt to save face. The opposing coach is a friend and he is just dying laughing, because he knows he got away with one.

End result - they get a basket (not a correctable error), we get ball but lose arrow, and nobody shoots the FTs because of the simultaneous Ts. So yeah, we coaches have those nights too.

I think we will all agree that this was not handled well and it smells of an inexperienced pair of officials. It takes some time to get a sense of when to ignore the yelling from the bench/crowd and when something actually needs to be heard. Good experienced officials would never have put the ball in play to start with. Thanks for having the patience to not completely degrade these newer officials, they need to get some valuable experience somewhere. All in all I would say you may have gotten lucky. Sounds to me like by the time the official realized the other team had gotten the sixth off the court, at which time it is too late to penalize. They could have just given you the direct technical and not penalized the other team. Now, that would have been a good story.

[bard]

nobody shoots the FTs because of the simultaneous Ts

I don't have my rule books with me, but this doesn't seem correct. Simultaneious T's on the coaches--especially when one is administrative? Shouldn't the T's have been shot?

[devdog69]

Originally posted by bard
nobody shoots the FTs because of the simultaneous Ts

I don't have my rule books with me, but this doesn't seem correct. Simultaneious T's on the coaches--especially when one is administrative? Shouldn't the T's have been shot?

I had the same nagging thought, bard. Just looked up the definition for simultaneous technicals: "...a situation in which there is a technical foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other." In the note it says no free throws and go to the arrow. Sounds like it fits here to me.

[Hawks Coach]

To be clear, he called both Ts at the same time, so the Ts were administered by the book.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by stripes
IMO, bad officiating. They ding you on a technicality while you point out THEIR error. A friendly reminder to get back into the box would have been sufficient.

You are right stripes, but the only problem with what you said is that we do not necessrily know the kind of official that was working this game. Many states also have made a bigger issue than needed over the "Coaching Box" rule and have basically threatened officials if they do not give Ts for this action. We must also note that this was an 8th Grade Travelling game too. That might have to do with the kind of official working the game. Might simply be inexperience.

Peace

[stripes]

Originally posted by JRutledge

You are right stripes, but the only problem with what you said is that we do not necessrily know the kind of official that was working this game. Many states also have made a bigger issue than needed over the "Coaching Box" rule and have basically threatened officials if they do not give Ts for this action. We must also note that this was an 8th Grade Travelling game too. That might have to do with the kind of official working the game. Might simply be inexperience.

Peace

True enough, but you would hope that officials at this level would have common sense. I teach the class for the new officials in my local association and we talk about common sense and doing what is right--at the very begining of the instruction. That is still no guarantee...

[theboys]

We played in a national qualifier this spring - YBOA 14U. In our first game, one of the two officials was apparently pretty new. Prior to the game, and at quarter breaks he spent a lot of time receiving advice from the other official. At times he looked a little unsure of himself.

With about 20 seconds to go in the game, and us down by one, we had the ball, dribbling up the sideline. The player with the dribble was bumped out of bounds by the defender. (Really, he was.) The "new" official blows his whistle, and gives the other team the ball. I looked at the second official, made some sort of grunting howler monkey noise, and threw my hands up in the air. He ignored me, thank goodness.

We ended up losing by one, of course. Oh, we got the ball back - with six seconds left, and promptly threw it out of bounds.

Except for the one call, I thought the officials did a good job, and worked well as a team. The "new" official was obviously giving it his best. So, after the game, I thanked them for their efforts.

But, the point of this story is this...I was talking to the player later that evening, and the "bumped" play came up. He told me, that after the game, one of the officials came up to him, and told him he was sorry, that they had kicked the call.

I asked the player if that made him mad. He said no, that it actually made him feel a little better. I don't how you officials feel about "true confessions", I guess it can be a dangerous road, but I thought it was pretty magnanimous myself.

[Stan]

Originally posted by theboys
I don't how you officials feel about "true confessions", I guess it can be a dangerous road, but I thought it was pretty magnanimous myself.

I've done the "true confessions" thing once. Never again. I got chewed on again only worse. I will not put myself and a player or coach in that kind of spot again.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by JRutledge
[QUOTEYou are right stripes, but the only problem with what you said is that we do not necessrily know the kind of official that was working this game. Many states also have made a bigger issue than needed over the "Coaching Box" rule and have basically threatened officials if they do not give Ts for this action. We must also note that this was an 8th Grade Travelling game too. That might have to do with the kind of official working the game. Might simply be inexperience.

Never seen a sign that the "box" has been a point of emphasis in Maryland - most officials a extremely liberal as long as you are off their backs. As for inexperience, I don't know how long some officials get to carry that tag. Some of the refs we get have been doing middle school travel ball as long as I have. I know I have learned a lot and changed a lot in how I prepare a team and manage games, while I watch them and they seem to have the same game they had five years ago.

It really seems a shame, because most of these guys genuinely seem to like doing the game and like working with the players, but they either haven't taken the right steps to improve or just don't have the knack for reffing. While many of you have done a lot of work to get where you are, as the posts on this board make clear, I think that there are those who are naturally suited to his work and those for whom it will always be a struggle, regardless of what they put into it or how long they ref.

[JRutledge]

There was not a POE, there was a rule change last year with the coaching box. But of course that depended on your state. Illinois always (at least for as long as I can remember or have been officiating) had the 6 foot box until last year when they expanded it. And the big deal was to keep coaches in the box at all times no matter what when it was expanded last year. Well of course they threatened to take it away all together if officials did not enforce it strictly. And once the season started, all that went completely out the window. I did not see one T for a coach out of the box all year. And the State Interpreters basically told us to give Ts if the coach had a foot outside the box, no matter what. I guess that shows how much influence they had on that one.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
There was not a POE, there was a rule change last year with the coaching box.

2001-02 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

1. Bench Decorum

A. Coaching Box – With rules permission to increase the size of the optional coaching box, the committee again stresses the importance of the coach to properly conduct him/herself. Coaches must stay within the confines of the optional coaching box and are only permitted to give instructions to players and substitutes. Coaches using the optional coaching box do not have implied permission to roam the sidelines, attempt to influence the decision of an official, or conduct themselves in an unsporting manner. Officials are directed to properly enforce the bench decorum rule.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

2001-02 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

1. Bench Decorum

A. Coaching Box – With rules permission to increase the size of the optional coaching box, the committee again stresses the importance of the coach to properly conduct him/herself. Coaches must stay within the confines of the optional coaching box and are only permitted to give instructions to players and substitutes. Coaches using the optional coaching box do not have implied permission to roam the sidelines, attempt to influence the decision of an official, or conduct themselves in an unsporting manner. Officials are directed to properly enforce the bench decorum rule.

As I stated, Coaching Box was not a POE, but Bench Decorum was. Coaching box was A, while B, C, and D were points under Bench Decorum. But that really is semantics.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Wrong again.

Unwilling to admit it, again.