Act of shooting

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

FWIW I believe that you are 100% correct. An official needs to see some movement to indicate that the player is attempting to score. It doesn't have to be much, but it does need to be more than simply ending a dribble or picking up the ball.

While I don't disagree, I think ending the dribble can be the starting point of a shot attempt more often than some officials allow.

Let's say in the OP, as A1 takes the allowed strides towards the basket after ending the dribble, gets fouled, fakes a pass to the wing, then releases the ball towards the basket - I would agree this would not be a shooting foul. The foul preceded a pass attempt, not a shot.

But, as an example, continuous motion also specifically mentions a pivot. So a player can get fouled with their back to the basket at the start of a pivot, finish the pivot, take the step towards the basket and release the ball, and this should be a shooting foul. I think there are a number of officials that would not call this a shooting foul because they would feel the pivot and/or the following step would be actions preceding the actual shot. There are some that feel a shot would only be the action of the arms going up. But the rule specifically says, "...and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball".

You're right in that a blanket statement of "ending a dribble is the start of a shot" would not be correct. But it is correct more times than a lot of officials allow. That's my point - there is more to a try, by rule, than simply moving the arms to bring the ball above the head to release it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

You're right in that a blanket statement of "ending a dribble is the start of a shot" would not be correct. But it is correct more times than a lot of officials allow. That's my point - there is more to a try, by rule, than simply moving the arms to bring the ball above the head to release it.

Agreed.

There are way too many times where officials are in a rush to put the foul "on the floor". They don't watch the whole play or sometimes even take in to account common sense. Like when there is a 1-on-1 fast break and there is not another offensive player within 20-30 feet of the play.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

There are some that feel a shot would only be the action of the arms going up. But the rule specifically says, "...and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball".

But the very next sentence of the rule says: These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs......

A throwing motion would involve the arms going up, would it not?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But the very next sentence of the rule says: These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs......

A throwing motion would involve the arms going up, would it not?

Does it say that?

What about an up-and-under move? If the foul occurs while A1 is bringing the ball down and around the defender, are you saying the "shot" only occurs while the ball is back on the way up?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Does it say that?

What about an up-and-under move? If the foul occurs while A1 is bringing the ball down and around the defender, are you saying the "shot" only occurs while the ball is back on the way up?

I don't think the key word is up. I think the key word is motion, but for it to be a shot at the basket, sooner or later it's gonna have to go up. As for your example, an up and under move, if the shooter gets whacked while going under, I don't think anybody would have a problem calling that part of the shooting motion.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't think the key word is up. I think the key word is motion, but for it to be a shot at the basket, sooner or later it's gonna have to go up. As for your example, an up and under move, if the shooter gets whacked while going under, I don't think anybody would have a problem calling that part of the shooting motion.

Exactly. In the OP, I believe his frustration was in being told that if A1 is fouled during the step(s) preceding the release, that is not considered part of the shot. Continuous motion (4-11) tells us there is more to "the habitual throwing movement" than simply moving the arms upward immediately prior to releasing the ball.

I think there are still a number of officials that unfairly penalize a player by calling a foul "before the shot", when in fact it is during the shooting motion. The "habitual throwing movement" can include foot and body movements, even a pivot. It doesn't have to include only "going up for the shot".

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I think there are still a number of officials that unfairly penalize a player by calling a foul "before the shot", when in fact it is during the shooting motion.

Great job of getting to the rim, now take it out & start all over again